[Sughly]

I have to say, while some had me thinking for a long time, this puzzle didn't stump me for a second. As soon as I got the mouse it was the first thing I tried.

When it comes to puzzle design though, I find that very often what one person finds difficult or sometimes illogical, another may feel the complete opposite. Then the two players think the other way around come a different puzzle . Happens with me and my brother a lot.

[browen]

Originally Posted by Bon

Yes, that's what I meant.. Sorry, English is (obviously) not my native tongue.

Spoiler:

You're kind of contradictory in your last post - he can't use the ladder because it's not "true to real actions in real life". Wouldn't I be too scared? Well, wouldn't the mouse be too stupid to grab the pantaloons for me? Puzzles need to be logical (to make sense), or we couldn't finish any adventure game without a walkthrough. The mouse and the pantaloons puzzle I think is not, I still don't get it - why would the mouse grab those pantaloons?

Spoiler:

There actually is a logical reason for the mouse to grab the pantaloons. When you show the sock to Bando, he will say something along the lines of "you can keep it, the mouse has eaten many holes into it anyways". I think its logical to assume that if the mouse likes gross socks, it will like gross pantaloons also

[ADan]

Quote Bon:
"You're kind of contradictory in your last post".

Well spotted. I am. I think this is a discussion technique developed by the philosophical school of sophism.
You take the logic of the opponent and use it against them. Take it 'ad absurdum' I think it's being called.

I thought I had made it clear that I don't even think that logic goes into the whole thing.
So I wouldn't agree with browen. It really doesn't matter if logical or not. As Soughly said: For some it is really obvious. (You might even take it as a reference to Monkey Island).

Spoiler:

(Use an animal in an unlikely function).

If you managed to get this certain 'item' and don't try it on the other certain item maybe you're lazy or it's just your creativity is a bit on the slow side.

Cheers, Dan.

[Bon]

Spoiler:

I actually never got stuck on that puzzle, I have some experience in playing this kind of adventures, I learned you should try all the possible combinations which aren't totally absurd. But I don't think there's any creativity involved, since it doesn't make sense (and yeah, it seems this one did make sense). Btw, the most nonsensical one to me was the one where you had to show Fat Spot to that fish-creature in the cave, in the first chapter, in order to light up to room, but I'm probably missing something.

[ADan]

@ Bon:

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean "you" as in "you personally". What I meant was "If one managed ...". But I think that sounds awkward in most cases.

As for the creativity: You are right, it is not really necessary but it helps. If you act upon inspired guesses you might get to the solution much faster than if you just work down the list of all possible combinations.

On a side note: I think you need to be more careful with spoilers. You can go advanced and use the question mark to hide explicit hints. Or just write the word "SPOILER" in between square brackets at the beginning and "/SPOILER" in the end (again with the brackets).

Cheers, Dan.

[ADan]

@ Bon again.

Sorry, just saw that you used spoiler tags before, just not this time.

[Jelena]

I was just about to point out that spoilers would be nice...
I just recently bought TWW (English version) and having read this thread I'm getting really anxious to play it. I'm 45 btw, but my mind is often very childlike. I suppose it means I'll enjoy it for sure.

[MoP]

I thought You weren't really into 'cartoony' games Jelena?

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by MoP

I thought You weren't really into 'cartoony' games Jelena?

That's true. There aren't many 'cartoony' games that I've truly enjoyed. But if the story and setting seems interesting I don't let the cartoon style stop me from getting it.

[seek83]

It was quite heartbreaking for me to after so long anticipating this game, to get right into it and find the English voice acting completely unlistenable. Having turned Voices off, I'm only just got only to lake, but really despise missing out on a major part of the game. Looking at other versions of the game, it appears that there isn't a version for german voice / english subs.

Anyway, too early for me to comment on the game, apart from the heartbrakingness of absolutely awful voice acting. Was so bewildered that someone.. a team of people of any talent within a studio, would record that guy playing Sadwick and indeed do all the work for the game to cast him in there. Thats a lotta work .. fark.. anyway,, rambling...

[Phod]

I've just started too (maybe 2-3 hours in) and while I did think the voice acting in the preview trailer was horrendous, I'm actually finding the voice acting in the game not that bad. I mean, it's not on the level of some of the best voice acting in adventure games, but I've heard worse. And Sadwick's voice is growing on me. At times, it sounds too much liek a guy trying to sound like Sadwick, but most of the time it's fine.

And the other characters so far have been fine. I can see why others may be turned off, but I went in expecting the worst after watching the trailer and I really not that upset by it.

[GreeN]

Ok.... I'm going to have to spoiler tag this whole post, I think. Please do not read this if you are currently playing the game.

Spoiler:

......What a HORRIBLE ending! The half-assed cryptic messages you get from the glowing orb started to give the ending away for me, but I was hoping it wouldn't come to such a disappointing end. But seriously? "Oh... it was all a dream". I can understand that this could have been an interesting twist to a story like this, but I just hate to see it in a game where you become so involved with everything and have worked so hard to see the glorious finale of your efforts.

I am so disappointed that the game ended in this way. I think maybe a little more so because I slightly anticipated it, but nevertheless. Every moment of the game up until the last 5 minutes was brilliant fun. Challenging, humorous and beautiful, but the ending really spoiled it for me. I hate to get worked up over something so trivial, but it's just a horrible, horrible ending in my opinion.

What says you?

[Bon]

Spoiler:

Two of the ending's biggest problems are a) it's a cliche; and b) the whole growing up concept should be featured throughout the game, and not just at the beginning and at the end.

[Sughly]

I think it's a little ironic that some might not like the ending, for the reasons that they...

Spoiler:

had generally grown to love the world. This is in a way the crux of it all - that it is the world as he knows it, and that he does need to leave it behind. To say it's a dream is a little off the mark as he was in a coma, and it's playing more on the idea of communication to people while in comas, which is at least something different to the dream concept. What I do agree on though, which to me was the most interesting thing about the concept, was how they used the world to reflect his relationships and emotions from reality, particularly at the beginning and end but not so much in the middle. This was a bit of a let down to the overall concept, but keep in mind this was a game born from the imagination of a young university student with many years of games yet to come (see Limbus for example)

[Ugignadl]

Spoiler:

I haven't posted much about this but yes, I will throw my hat in the ring as intensely disliking the ending. I feel like it is cheap, and an easy out for the writers. I mean, even in MI2, the ending was not completely "oh it was all fake ha ha ha" because of Elaine and the red eyed lightning kid chuckie. But I digresss... disappointed with TWW.

[Sughly]

Originally Posted by Ugignadl

Spoiler:

I haven't posted much about this but yes, I will throw my hat in the ring as intensely disliking the ending. I feel like it is cheap, and an easy out for the writers. I mean, even in MI2, the ending was not completely "oh it was all fake ha ha ha" because of Elaine and the red eyed lightning kid chuckie. But I digresss... disappointed with TWW.

To dislike the ending is fair enough, to each his own, but I'm not sure it's 'an easy way out' for the writers as I get the impression it was the concept for the game since it's inception...

[Bon]

So? They had an easy way out on their minds from the very beginning.

[ozzie]

To be honest, I'm not sure if the story of the game could have been resolved in a much better manner. How could it be different?
Otherwise it migh've been generic, standard fantasy fare. It's not like the story up until the point was stunningly original anyway. It wasn't. The characters were, the settings, but not the story.

Spoiler:

Since there was some foreshadowing involved, though weirdly only at the very beginning and end, it doesn't feel very cheap to me. And like Sughly said, there are subtle differences between it and the truly cliched "It was just a dream" twist. I feel it's a bit like the second half of The Neverending Story, only that you wouldn't know that Bastian is trapped inside the book.

[Foe]

Originally Posted by ozzie

Spoiler:

Since there was some foreshadowing involved, though weirdly only at the very beginning and end, it doesn't feel very cheap to me.

Spoiler:

The whole story is about transformation and change, and the foreshadowing permeates the game from beginning to end. Sadwick is unhappy as a clown because he cannot fulfill his ambitions at the circus (he wants to recite poetry, for example, instead of burping the alphabet). He is stuck in a rut, yet he does not do anything about it. When the world faces destruction he sets out to stop this: but this is as much about him finding his role in the world as it is about him not wishing to accept change.
The symbolism of change is foreshadowed constantly throughout the whole game. The two most important aspects are Kalida and Spot. Kalida's awakening (a story within a story) touches upon vital points of the game: when Kalida awakens, the whole island disappears. This happens despite Ruben's attempt to preserve the status quo. Though it is caused by Sadwick, he is unaffected by the consequences. In the end, he will have to make the same decision, when he himself is directly affected by the consequences.
Sadwick's companion, Spot, is a more continuous reminder of the concept. He is not only vital in that he solves puzzles, but the way in which he is able to do so is even more important. After all, he learns new forms after certain processes. In the end, he undergoes his final transformation and Sadwick has to say goodbye to him. Now only Sadwick is left to accept transformation.
Remember, that this cannot be a choice for change, as the whispered world has already been lost to Loucaux: it is not a choice between 'reality' and the fantasy world that we have been exploring throughout the game, as the latter has already been lost. What has remained is a static world under Loucaux's control. Sadwick will have to accept transformation.

For the people who dismiss the story as a cliché and as a disappointment, remember that your reaction is very essential to what this game is about (as Sughly already pointed out). And perhaps, if you agree with the interpretation outlined above, these people should play it again to see if there is a lesson to be learned

Sorry for this long spoiler post.. At least the white looks kinda nice. The actual text can then only be a disappointment

[Bon]

I think the main part of the story is Sadwick's growing up, so it would still be nice if saw more of that in the middle along with those other changes. The end, while fitting with the whole everything must change concept, is a cliche. They could come up with a different one which would still be a part of that concept.

To be honest, I'm not sure if the story of the game could have been resolved in a much better manner. How could it be different?

How could it be different?

Spoiler:

Well, for instance, Asgil could actually be a mysterious invasive time-travelling alien race from the future. Instead of finding the king, Sadwick could come face to face with their spaceship and the remainder of their forces. Then, he could accidentally travel to the past, to a time when Grandpa was young and become a part of his adventures (thus setting up the sequel). Possibilities are endless. Yes, I know it doesn't have too much to do with change (tho it's got as much as Kalida's awakening does), but I wrote this in 2 minutes, if I (and I'm sure thousands of other people) thought about it some more, I could probably figure out a better one.