[Jobabob]

It doesnt work for first person shooters, as evident in halflife 2:episode 1, where its essentially a full game sliced into 3 parts rather than self contained and RESOLVING chapters with an overarching story, which is the direction I assume sam and max will venture towards

[SoccerDude28]

I don't mind episodic games if they don't interfere with the "game" part. Sometimes, due to the shortness of the episode the story suffers. Also, not sure if this is due to episodes or not, but these new episodic adventures are so easy they seem to be made for children in mind, and not for seasoned adventure gamers. But to be fair, the whole gaming industry has been dumbed down in the last 5+ years, and I hear complaints about that across the board in all genres.

Oh one other issue I have with electronic distribution in general (which episodic games seem to be a big part off). Companies need to make their games work after the unfortunate shutting down of their studio. I heard of a company that was distributing games electronically for 5 months before they closed their doors, and since you needed the service to start the game, a lot of the people who bought games through their service couldn't play them anymore. Take 2, who was one of the publishers on that service were kind enough to send anyone who bought one of their games on the service, a physical copy of the game.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Also, not sure if this is due to episodes or not, but these new episodic adventures are so easy they seem to be made for children in mind, and not for seasoned adventure gamers. But to be fair, the whole gaming industry has been dumbed down in the last 5+ years, and I hear complaints about that across the board in all genres.

I have heard this arguement and it frustrates me. I didn't find either of the Bone games or Culture Shock to be excessively easy nor were they extremely hard and the last time I looked, I was an adult. Seasoned adventure gamers, I feel, have played so much, I think they can figure some of these games out in their sleep. Games that others have complained about being easy, I have never found really easy. But then again, I started gaming when I was 29.

Oh one other issue I have with electronic distribution in general (which episodic games seem to be a big part off). Companies need to make their games work after the unfortunate shutting down of their studio. I heard of a company that was distributing games electronically for 5 months before they closed their doors, and since you needed the service to start the game, a lot of the people who bought games through their service couldn't play them anymore. Take 2, who was one of the publishers on that service were kind enough to send anyone who bought one of their games on the service, a physical copy of the game.

One of the great lessons I have learned is that life is uncertain. With many purchases, there is always a bit of a risk that the company may go out of business or stop supporting their products or stop making replacement parts for them depending on what you bought. Man I remember the fact that my parents bought a Betamax player when video recorders first came out. Oops, wrong choice! But we all survived. There are too many things in life to worry about. I guess I choose to buy the games that I would like to play and if the time comes I can't play them anymore, I'll worry about it then.

[jp-30]

I prefer my games in bite sized chunks thesedays, because I simply cannot commit 15-20 hours+ to a videogame. Chances are during a game of that length I will be forced to take a break via external sources (family, work etc) and then never return to it.

Regularly released games of 2-4 hours length suits me perfectly.

[Maquisard]

Episodic Adventures. Agree or disagree?

I guess that'd have to depend on whether they're good episodic adventures. So far, I wholeheartedly agree with Bone, and am sure S&M is even better.

[vivasawadee]

Episodic games are ok as long as you're not left with a cliffhanger.

They should be fully contained stories and should have minimal carry over to the next game.

[eriq]

I love episodic adventures like Sam and Max where "chapters" fit the storyline well. I don't think all adventures need to be episodic. There's definitely a place for grand, epic adventures.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

I have heard this arguement and it frustrates me. I didn't find either of the Bone games or Culture Shock to be excessively easy nor were they extremely hard and the last time I looked, I was an adult. Seasoned adventure gamers, I feel, have played so much, I think they can figure some of these games out in their sleep. Games that others have complained about being easy, I have never found really easy. But then again, I started gaming when I was 29.

How can you call the Bone games not easy when Tell tale themselves rate them as 1 out of 5 in difficulty?

And as far as the Sam and Max game goes, I am not the only one who thinks they are easy. You can read a lot of the reviews out there that point out how easy it is as a negative.

Originally Posted by Melanie68

One of the great lessons I have learned is that life is uncertain. With many purchases, there is always a bit of a risk that the company may go out of business or stop supporting their products or stop making replacement parts for them depending on what you bought. Man I remember the fact that my parents bought a Betamax player when video recorders first came out. Oops, wrong choice! But we all survived. There are too many things in life to worry about. I guess I choose to buy the games that I would like to play and if the time comes I can't play them anymore, I'll worry about it then.

When you bought your Betamax, it still played all the old videos you bought for it didn't it, so I think this is a very poor comparison. I also had a betamax and used it for at least 3-4 years before VHS became the standard. A better comparison would have been if you had bought a Betamax, and it stopped playing all the betamax videos when they stopped manufacturing it.

[Yini]

As long as episodic games have a decent price structure and good gameplay, I don't mind it -- especially if it gives the developer financial support while they finish the rest of the game, as opposed to their having to look for sufficient investment funds so they can finish the game in one go.

I also don't see why episodic games can't have an epic story/world. How many adventure games allow you access to large sections of the world from the start (Maybe Myst style games)? Don't they restrict you to sections of the game at a time anyway?

[jp-30]

Originally Posted by Yini

I also don't see why episodic games can't have an epic story/world. How many adventure games allow you access to large sections of the world from the start (Maybe Myst style games)? Don't they restrict you to sections of the game at a time anyway?

BONE is an epic story/world.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

How can you call the Bone games not easy when Tell tale themselves rate them as 1 out of 5 in difficulty?

And as far as the Sam and Max game goes, I am not the only one who thinks they are easy. You can read a lot of the reviews out there that point out how easy it is as a negative.

Well, I'll quote myself:

"I didn't find either of the Bone games or Culture Shock to be excessively easy nor were they extremely hard and the last time I looked, I was an adult."

Notice the pronoun. I feel like you were making a generalization. Easy does not equal a children's game in my opinion. I don't care what Telltale rated it either. I too have read a lot of people saying Sam&Max is easy. It seems the people who are doing the most complaining about this game are long time/hard core adventure gamers. They keep blaming the 'easy' games but maybe it's not the game's fault. I am going to do something maybe I shouldn't and quote Jake from something he posted at Idle Thumbs (I hope I don't offend you by doing this Jake). I happen to agree with him:

Originally Posted by Jake at Idle Thumbs

The thing that breaks my heart about die-hard adventure fans is their lust for puzzles overtaking their desire to meet interesting characters, explore new worlds, and take part in an interesting and atmospheric story. Back in the day I wrote a humongously long bloated thing about it in this thread on the Adventure Gamers forums (specific post in question: here). I always liked adventure games because they had characters and stories unlike any other in the entirety of gaming, but still offered challenges and interactivity that I couldn't get from a more passive medium like a book, comic, or film. The thing is, at least for the vocal uber-hardcore adventure gamers, after you play 80000 adventure games, the puzzle obstacles that used to seem challenging and rewarding start to become instinctual - a seasoned adventure gamer can just *solve* them... at least the ones that aren't totally inane and nonsensical. I think adventure gamers have sort of by and large become the extreme bondage and rape fetishists of the gaming world: The old stuff that used to bring them such joy doesn't do it for them anymore, but what they want now is just not at all healthy or appropriate.

When you bought your Betamax, it still played all the old videos you bought for it didn't it, so I think this is a very poor comparison. I also had a betamax and used it for at least 3-4 years before VHS became the standard. A better comparison would have been if you had bought a Betamax, and it stopped playing all the betamax videos when they stopped manufacturing it.

Maybe it's not the best comparison but like I said before, I have more important things to worry about in my life than if the downloadable episodic game I buy today may not be playable in the future.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

Well, I'll quote myself:

"I didn't find either of the Bone games or Culture Shock to be excessively easy nor were they extremely hard and the last time I looked, I was an adult."

Notice the pronoun. I feel like you were making a generalization. Easy does not equal a children's game in my opinion.



I don't care what Telltale rated it either. I too have read a lot of people saying Sam&Max is easy. It seems the people who are doing the most complaining about this game are long time/hard core adventure gamers. They keep blaming the 'easy' games but maybe it's not the game's fault. I am going to do something maybe I shouldn't and quote Jake from something he posted at Idle Thumbs (I hope I don't offend you by doing this Jake). I happen to agree with him:

The Bone game is targetted mainly for children. Sam and Max's humor might not be, but its game mechanics sure are. And yes seasoned adventures will be disappointed because they have played Sam and Max before, they were the ones who were up in arms when LA cancelled the sequel, and they have high expectations, especially when Tellatale promised them a more difficult adventure game.
And as far as adventure games being only a vessel for story I don't happen to agree. If I wanted to "play" a click fest or an interactive cut scene slide show, I would watch a pixar movie (which I already do ). But I am playing a video "GAME" where you are supposed to have some "gaming" in it.

Originally Posted by Melanie68

Maybe it's not the best comparison but like I said before, I have more important things to worry about in my life than if the downloadable episodic game I buy today may not be playable in the future.

Well I do worry about such things, because when I buy something, I' expect it to work after 5 months of spending money on it.

[Udvarnoky]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

The Bone game is targetted mainly for children.

Is that right? How many children do you know buy games online with a credit card?

Oh sure, there are other ways the games will find their way to kids, and I can tell you first hand that they're enjoyable for that age group, but to say that they were Telltale's main audience makes zero sense. It was targeted at fans of the comic, adventure gamers, and anyone else who might enjoy the story. In other words, Telltale's "main target" was pretty much everyone, and the result is a game that was designed with broad appeal and no learning curve. It's okay if an easy, simplistic game isn't your cup of tea, but that does not mean that when you dismiss it as a "kiddie game" you don't look like an idiot.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

Is that right? How many children do you know buy games online with a credit card?

Oh sure, there are other ways the games will find their way to kids, and I can tell you first hand that they're enjoyable for that age group, but to say that they were Telltale's main audience makes zero sense. It was targeted at fans of the comic, adventure gamers, and anyone else who might enjoy the story. In other words, Telltale's "main target" was pretty much everyone, and the result is a game that was designed with broad appeal and no learning curve. It's okay if an easy, simplistic game isn't your cup of tea, but that does not mean that when you dismiss it as a "kiddie game" you don't look like an idiot.

Maybe children don't but parents do. It was advertised in the scholastic website, and later on also shipped in a box to retail.

It was not designed for seasoned adventure gamers nor for adults. I personally bought the first one under the assumption that there was a game there, and never bothered with the next game afterwards. I have read the bone comic book in anticipation of the game, and the book is far more for the audience you are talking about than the game is. I think of it as the pixar movie tie-in games. Do you think those are for adults?

[Udvarnoky]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Maybe children don't but parents do. It was advertised in the scholastic website, and later on also shipped in a box to retail.

Yeah, it's really weird that they'd advertise it on Scholastic's site, because the fact that Scholastic is currently publishing the wide re-releases of the comic is just a minor detail. Also I'm not aware that the game ever shipped to stores. The CD version is, as far as I know, only available from Telltale's site. Where'd you see this boxed copy?

It was not designed for seasoned adventure gamers nor for adults. I personally bought the first one under the assumption that there was a game there, and never bothered with the next game afterwards. I have read the bone comic book in anticipation of the game, and the book is far more for the audience you are talking about than the game is. I think of it as the pixar movie tie-in games. Do you think those are for adults?

I think Bone was designed mainly for adults to about the same degree that I think it was designed mainly for kids. Believe it or not sometimes products aren't made with a conscious effort to exclude certain groups.

Honestly I don't see how you can compare Telltale's Bone game to your average movie tie-in game. Name me one of those types of games that pay as much attention to the characters and the writing as Telltale's games do. You think that when those games are made, they stay in close touch with the creator to make sure everything's true to the story and the characters (for reasons that aren't obvious marketing tactics)? It's one thing for THQ to throw together a shoddy, blatantly kid-oriented Finding Nemo XBOX game in order to cash in on the license. You're telling me that the developers who broke off from LucasArts to form Telltale had a similar goal in mind, except with Bone? That was their vision? First of all Bone is not a license that you "cash-in" on. They did not pick it because it had a fan base of seven billion people, but because of the quality of the license, and the way they built the game reflects that. It's an absurd comparison. Now, you could argue in a reasonable way that Telltale went too far in trying to make the game universally appealing, but you didn't. You used the fact that it wasn't the game you were expecting to label it a kids game and put it in the same league as games that amount to little more than interactive adverts for their licenses. It's insulting and dumb.

I do recommend the second game even if you didn't like the first one. It's a little bit longer and a little bit heavier on the puzzles (and seven bucks cheaper if you bought Bone 1 early on). However it is not a drastic increase in difficulty or length so if that's something you can't handle, then yes, stay away from it. But it's a very good game.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

Yeah, it's really weird that they'd advertise it on Scholastic's site, because the fact that Scholastic is currently publishing the wide re-releases of the comic is just a minor detail. Also I'm not aware that the game ever shipped to stores. The CD version is, as far as I know, only available from Telltale's site. Where'd you see this boxed copy?

I think I saw the boxed copy in Fry's before. I might be hallucinating though.

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

I think it was designed mainly for adults to about the same degree that I think it was designed mainly for kids. Believe it or not sometimes products aren't made with a conscious effort to exclude certain groups.

There is definitely a concious effort to tailor a game to a certain audience. That is based on the way you portray the story, the level of interaction etc...
I found this game more fitting to be played by my 10 year old nephew.

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

Honestly I don't see how you can compare Telltale's Bone game to your average movie tie-in game. Name me one of those types of games that pay as much attention to the characters and the writing as Telltale's games do. You think that when those games are made, they stay in close touch with the creator to make sure everything's true to the story and the characters (for reasons that aren't obvious marketing tactics)? It's one thing for THQ to throw together a shoddy, blatantly kid-oriented Finding Nemo XBOX game in order to cash in on the license. You're telling me that the developers who broke off from LucasArts to form Telltale had a similar goal in mind, except with Bone? That was their vision? First of all Bone is not a license that you "cash-in" on. They did not pick it because it had a fan base of seven billion people, but because of the quality of the license, and the way they built the game reflects that. It's an absurd comparison. Now, you could argue in a reasonable way that Telltale went too far in trying to make the game universally appealing, but you didn't. You used the fact that it wasn't the game you were expecting to label it a kids game and put it in the same league as games that amount to little more than interactive adverts for their licenses. It's insulting and dumb.

The comparison was there to show that just because the subject matter is universally appealing, the game adaptation doesn't have to be. A movie like Finding Nemo is for all audiences, but the game is mainly for kids. I felt the same with the Bone: Out From Boneville game. It was in no way meant to compare the quality of the 2 products. Just the target audience, but you obviously just jumped into conclusions like most people on the defensive tend to do.

And as far as quality goes, well gamerankings had a 69%for Out From Boneville, so the game definitely is not of the same quality as the older Lucasarts adventure games that we both liked. A lot of that is because of the
level of difficulty of the game and the lack of gaming in the whole experience. I guess I am not the only one who thought that.

Originally Posted by Udvarnoky

I do recommend the second game even if you didn't like the first one. It's a little bit longer and a little bit heavier on the puzzles (and seven bucks cheaper if you bought Bone 1 early on). However it is not a drastic increase in difficulty or length so if that's something you can't handle, then yes, stay away from it. But it's a very good game.

Thanks I'll pass.

[Squinky]

Speaking of games for/appealing to kids, the "boys aged 8-13" post linked to by Jake as quoted by Mel makes for interesting reading. I wonder what people in said discussion would think about Telltale's games...

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude

And yes seasoned adventures will be disappointed because they have played Sam and Max before, they were the ones who were up in arms when LA cancelled the sequel, and they have high expectations, especially when Tellatale promised them a more difficult adventure game.

I would like to see this promise from Telltale that you cited and I would also like to know what you mean by difficult - difficult according to whose standards?

Also I have seen posts by seasoned adventure gamers who were delighted with Culture Shock. I think Telltale tried their best to please the loyal Sam & Max fans as well but I think there is a subset of those fans who would likely have never been made happy regardless of what Telltale did.

[Nautilus]

I do prefer to wait until the episodic game be released in boxed full version, like TV series' seasons DVDs.

[rtrooney]

No purchase from me until I can download the whole Kit & Kaboodle.