[lostwolfe]

Originally Posted by risingson

it's true, kate walker is not a likable character [well, she is worse than that]. but, as she aproaches voralberg, you end up feeling something for her. give her, and the game, a chance.

but this is part of my problem, too. if kate walker had been "unlikable," it could even have been interesting. but she's kind of this pedestrian, middle of the road lady. there's nothing particularly different or special about her. yes, this can be used to great effect, but it wasn't. kate walker doesn't seem to have any wonder at all for what's going on around her. she just "exists." she sees automata and she goes. "oh, walking robots." not: "oh, walking robots! cool!" just, "oh. walking robots." in exactly that tone of voice.

Originally Posted by aprillives

i think kate was dissatisfied with her life because she always did what was expected of her. since she didn't have a vision of her own, she was drawn to someone who did.

but this, to me just re-inforces her bland-ness. i'm sorry, it just does. i cared a little more [not a whole lot, but a little bit] more for zoe in dreamfall - and the reason i cared for her [now, mind you, it wasn't a "lot more care"] was that i could /see/ her kind of unfolding during the course of that story. kate? not so much. in the first couple of hours, kate kind of plods along and sees some stuff, but it really doesn't seem to do anything to her. zoe sees some stuff and - while it doesn't affect her a /lot/ more, [zoe does have emotional twinges, but they're not huge.] the events that happen in dreamfall seem to have some kind of effect on zoe. [though, there's one point in the story where i totally expected zoe to break in half under the weight of what she discovered, and she never did]

i guess, in all fairness, i really should give both games another try, but i'd probably have to get past my kate walker apathy and that's...you know, difficult.

[AprilLives]

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

but this, to me just re-inforces her bland-ness. i'm sorry, it just does.

That's okay. I like the game AND Kate Walker enough for the both of us. We all enjoy different gaming experiences. I would never enjoy a game that is loaded with combat, for example. However, Syberia is exactly what it wanted to be and fulfilled its promise beautifully.

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

i guess, in all fairness, i really should give both games another try, but i'd probably have to get past my kate walker apathy and that's...you know, difficult.

You might feel differently if you play them right through. But then again ... maybe not. It will be interesting to hear what you think, if you do!

[Wreck]

Let's put it like this:

Kate Walker vs Zanthia

end of discussion

[AprilLives]

Originally Posted by lostwolfe

kate walker doesn't seem to have any wonder at all for what's going on around her. she just "exists." she sees automata and she goes. "oh, walking robots." not: "oh, walking robots! cool!" just, "oh. walking robots." in exactly that tone of voice.

I see what you're saying. Somehow this type of reaction was not something I missed or wanted in Syberia. Maybe because these thoughts were going on in my own head as I got into being the character of Kate Walker. Also, her voice was nuanced. On the other hand, I think this lack of the main character noticing what's going on around him/her is important and very missing in Paradise, at least in these early stages of the game.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by AprilLives

I like your assessment of all this. When you say death of Kate Walker, I see that it’s true, in a sense. I take this to mean death of the old Kate who was tied to other peoples’ expectations. Through helping Hans, she achieved the freedom to follow her own path, whatever that might be.

This is what I also wrote a few years ago in my dissertation of the game's story, Life And Death On Rails: The Symbolisms Of Syberia...


Kate's final decision to 'die' and the
train that speeds her to destiny. It's
worth noting how, in Kate's journey into
her own self to effect a painful but
necessary severance, the train has
always symbolized a continuity, steadily
moving East, to the rising sun, a
new day, a rebith.

Originally Posted by Trep

The choice of life and death hover before Kate. She originally thought she had a life in New York, but she comes to realize it was merely motions and machinations, what she did because it was what was supposed to be done, they expect you to do it. The signing over of the factory, she realizes, carries nothing of any substantial fulfillment, not like helping The Colonel figure out how to fly, or establishing a bond and camaraderie with Oscar, or discovering the intrigue of mammoths, discovering the passion of Hans who, with such a laser precise singularity of purpose and faith, pursued his passion, wherever it may lead him. All this, Kate realizes, is what she herself wants now, it fits perfectly, naturally, and effortlessly - she had never felt more alive and truthful to herself. But to attain it, she must die. That is, Kate Walker, Professional Lawyer from New York, upwardly mobile, sophisticated, socially prominent and attractive young woman with good status, must die.

And so she quickly turns around just before boarding the plane and races as fast as she can to the train station to catch the lonely eastbound train - and Hans - just in the nick of time.

Kate Walker is dead.

[AprilLives]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

This is what I also wrote a few years ago in my dissertation of the game's story, Life And Death On Rails: The Symbolisms Of Syberia...


Kate's final decision to 'die' and the
train that speeds her to destiny. It's
worth noting how, in Kate's journey into
her own self to effect a painful but
necessary severance, the train has
always symbolized a continuity, steadily
moving East, to the rising sun, a
new day, a rebith.

You captured it all perfectly! A moving train representing the inner journey hit home to me. That last scene in Syberia 1 was incredibly moving.

[xlynx]

Having just played through both Syberia games, I found the art quite good but apart from that I found the game a little stiff and lifeless.

It gave me more of a feeling of uneasiness than the magic of adventure. For example, it was sometimes hard to tell who was a 'good guy/bad guy' because the expressions were somewhat unnatural.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Ryan, cool it with the name calling, please. We don't do that in this community.

He wasn't calling him names - those were acronyms. I think A.S.S. was refering to the Acronym Specialist Society. It's just their secret lingo.

And on a slightly unrelated note, how come only like 4 people on the internet know the difference between "their" and "they're?" Doesn't anyone pay attention in class? I find it really frustrating. Maybe I'll go start a thread in the Chit Chat section about this.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

And on a slightly unrelated note, how come only like 4 people on the internet know the difference between "their" and "they're?" Doesn't anyone pay attention in class? I find it really frustrating. Maybe I'll go start a thread in the Chit Chat section about this.

I must be one of those four people, then. I got very high grades in English, especially spelling and grammar. Not that I'm perfect, mind you, I still make mistakes now and then. Still, I can tell the difference between "they're" and "their", as well as "its" and "it's".

You can discern these most common f***-ups in many game journalists' writings. They suck at spelling and grammar, almost as much as they suck at journalism.

Anyway, Syberia....

[Risingson]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

This is what I also wrote a few years ago in my dissertation of the game's story,

And now I don't remember whether we said it at the same time in different boards, if you said so and then I agreed, or what

EDIT: no, now I remember. You said so in the first game, and I found it superflous. But then I played the second, and found those symbolisms, one by one, in the whole game, very clearly.

[Freundschaft]

is the dissertation still available? unfortunately geocities has gone down, and it is not available on archive.org
I would really love to read it. Please reupload it somewhere, thanks!

[discoalucard]

If Intrepid Homoludens doesn't mind, I uploaded a copy here:

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/syb...layout_040.htm

I...actually don't like Syberia very much either. Kate's a boring character, there are way too many empty screens, the puzzles are dull, and most of the writing outside of Oscar is super bland. Still, this article helped me appreciate the themes of the game, even if I don't think they were executed very well. I wrote a review of both games for the book I've been hocking around here - I guess I can post it if anyone's interested.

It also made me realized how badly Syberia II screwed up with the narrative, although graphically I felt it was much stronger.

[Collector]

I enjoyed the Syberia games, but recognize that my impression was mostly due to there being few new games at the time that were that notable. Sokal creates great atmosphere with his graphics and themes, but his stories always seem to fall short of delivering on the promise implied by that atmosphere, especially the endings. I'll play any new games he produces, but I will never expect too much from them. If he teamed up with a real writer... who knows?

[Christian IV]

Both Syberia I and II are beautiful, evocative, deep, intriguing, wonderfully scripted and written, very well voiced and acted for, and overall two of the most wonderful games yet created for the computer genre. Many like em, many don't that is natural and fine in any universe of reasonable people. Art is art, whether people understand it or not. Making a game pretty is not making a great game. Making a great game understandable to everyone is impossible for it would mean making the lowest common denominator which would make trash.

Unfortunately we live in an age of incredible technology and skills that allow us to literally recreate reality down to the smallest flea ...or to make the most complex action possible..... and everything is going faster and faster and becomiong more and more superficialy...like Stark run away like crazy. So we live in the shadow and most can't see the light anymore.

the two Syberias show what great literature can be created for the CG game genre....you don't certainly have to understand or like it. But they remain classic masterpieces and will until the end of communication or until everything crashes in the next Great Divide which is coming fast as we forget the values that are the measure of art....and beauty and achievement in any genre.

Great topic and hopefully we can remain civil and kind to each other.....for i see everyone has a lot to say and share and that is the whole purpose of this and any forum.

[orient]

I first played Syberia I & II about 2 years ago and I really enjoyed them as an overarching experience. I felt the games had a few good characters in Oscar, Hans and Anna to a smaller extent, but it was the atmosphere and environments that made the game(s); no doubt about it. When I think back to the locations -- Valadilene, Barrockstadt, Komkolzgrad, Aralbad, Romansburg -- all of these places are visual marvels with a wonderful, magical and most importantly to me, unique atmosphere.

I like the simpleness of the narrative. You're trying to find someone and stopping off at exotic places along the way. Then you're following that man's dream. Despite the abrupt, seemingly random manner in which you find Hans, I have very little problem with the overall tale.

I don't subscribe to the mentality of the more hot-spots the better. It's a balance. Interactivity in games should be meaningful, therefore hot-spots should have a purpose. Sometimes "fleshing out the game-world" isn't enough if what you're fleshing out is pointless and/or boring in the first place. I'm not saying that the Syberia games are a perfect example of anything, really (maybe apart from creating atmosphere), but I think the minimalist approach is more valid than people give it credit for.

[terhardp]

"Syberia sucks!"... Well, this sounds harsh, to say the least.

To me, Syberia games are among the finest adventure games I've played so far, though they're not flawless and not my personal favourite. However, they shine in several aspects: design and settings, atmosphere, music, memorable characters and overall spirit. I must agree that the story itself is often slow-pacing, especially in the first game, and it has some idle motion that, I dare to say, is characteristic of each Sokal game. But its essence, to me, is beautiful and universal. I particulary like the Kate Walker's transformation and desire to break free from her past life. This change is even more emphasized, thanks to the magical world and characters she's drawn to. All in all, like "The Longest Journey", this may not be a game(s) that will appeal to everyone, but it has enough reasons why its often mentioned as one of the essential adventure titles.

[millenia]

I think both orient and terhardp have said it well. I also recognize the games as beautiful and atmospheric. The change, the journey. That's what the games are. And they are not my favourites either. I don't usually like lonely journeys and I focus on games that are more human interaction and inspecting a case. Yet I cannot deny the power Syberia has.

I accept that they're not everyone's cup of tea but just say that they suck seems a bit superficial as it would be better to at least try to look at games from more objective view. I can admit that many games I dislike can still be good in some way and achieve something, so I am a bit amazed when people just plain bash widely respected and loved adventures like TLJ or Syberia.

[Ashok]

I agree with you OP. I grew up playing adventure games as a kid and have played thru many LucasArts and Sierra classics numerous of times. Two of my favorite recent games are Longest Journey and Dreamfall. I played thru Syberia after hearing about the hype, praying it would bring back the adventure magic until Jane Jensen finishes Gray Matter.

Anyhow, I really did not like the game at all. No offense to any of the games fans, technically its very well produced. The voice acting and artwork are absolutely beautiful. I really did feel like a lot of care went into the game design and puzzles, but I just thought the game seemed bland. Kind of a boring universe and I didnt really like Kate Walker.

And I'm still waiting for Gray Matter. :-(

[jannar85]

We all might have different opinions on things, and we should respect each decision, without pissing off the community as saying something sucks. You can have that opinion for yourself, but you can express it in a better way, instead maybe start a discussion what everyone liked / disliked about the game, and it would have been a really interesting comparison.

Some like Syberia, some love it, and some dislike it. But we should we glad that there's so many different adventure games out there, so there's something for just about everyone.

The only thing I disliked from Syberia, was that it had too few characters in it, I felt alone in that world around 70% of the time. But I wouldn't say it sucked. It wasn't just my type of adventure game.

[Majsan]

I really liked the games when they came out, but they haven't survived through time for me. Have tried to play them again but got bored after a few minutes...
But they still look great!