[GombeTo]

Do you think there are many connections between The Matrix (The Movie) and Fahrenheit?

I mean, there are Lucas and Neo who have similar fate, temper and character AND even they look alike. Both work in a bank (I'm not sure for Neo) but the office is the same (despite Lucas is in different room). Both are running in this office and trying to hide from the "bad guys".

Also the way they fight...

Agatha and The Oracle have the same to do. They're both old ladies and tell the future.

AND that scene when Marcus gives Lucas a cross and Lucas says: "You know I don't believe in these things". The same as Matrix 2 in Zion when black man says "You know I don't believe in these things" to his wife when she gives him a cross.

There are much more similarities, but I can't think of them. While I was watching the movie several days ago I was amazed how many connections are between these two.

But that's not bad. Even though, Matrix & Fahrenheit are NOT THE SAME, they just have SIMILARITIES.

[MuyaMan]

Escaping bullets in "bullet time"...

[Boneho Chane]

No, they do not both work in a bank. Neo worked as a computer programmer. Another one though would be the whole chosen one idea that kept recurring through out Fahrenheit.

[GombeTo]

You're right. They don't both work in a bank. But the idea of the offices (they're all the same) and this pursuit in there - simillar!

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by GombeTo

Agatha and The Oracle have the same to do. They're both old ladies and tell the future.

Agatha didn't tell the future. On the other hand, the Oracle (the Matrix one) had nothing to do. Her single scene was completely disposable from the plot.

I mean, there are Lucas and Neo who have similar fate, temper and character

Also, Neo didn't seem to have any character. He was just repeating "whoa" an looking cool. I'd pick Lucas over him any day.

(Does it show that I dislike Matrix? )

[neovsmatrix]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Agatha didn't tell the future. On the other hand, the Oracle (the Matrix one) had nothing to do. Her single scene was completely disposable from the plot.

Also, Neo didn't seem to have any character. He was just repeating "whoa" an looking cool. I'd pick Lucas over him any day.

(Does it show that I dislike Matrix? )

I think it shows you have no clue what the Matrix was about.

As for Neo's lack of character, it's intentional, because he is a Christ-like avatar, which means he's disconnected from "reality" and thus emotionless to an extent which would tend to produce Self-realization, realization of God. Lucas wasn't all that emotional either, though, but I don't think there was any deep purpose behind that element in Fahrenheit.

And I too, noticed the similarities when I was playing Fahrenheit. But the plot later on takes a REALLY ridiculous turn into something very sci-fi. The source of Lucas's powers are not really himself, but this alien artifact. Until then, there are a lot of similarities between the two though. Both can see the immediate future (well, in Reloaded and Revolutions Neo begins to see the immediate future), both have godlike powers, computer AI evolves in both of them, both are involved with questioning what is "real" though the Matrix did it to a far greater extent, etc.

There were no aliens in the Matrix either. Neo was indeed The One (the Upanishadic enlightened man, one with God or Brahman, seeking to bring a balance to the world and restore at least the Matrix to the Golden Age or what would be Satya Yuga in Hinduism). The Matrix trilogy was based mostly upon Hindu philosophy, that of escaping cause and effect to be truly "free", to escape the world of duality and merge with the unseen God, which Hindus would call Brahman.

Neo in the first two movies is the sixth incarnation of Vishnu (the protector and preserver God in Hinduism), called Parashurama. He's an avatar. He is known as the sixth incarnation of the One program at the time of Reloaded as well. Upon his death/coma in the end of Reloaded he transitions into becoming completely god-like, where his own god-personality essentially manifests in the real world as well.

In Reloaded Neo is only sure of his purpose in the Matrix, he can only use his powers in the Matrix, he is only God in the Matrix. He sees the future in the Matrix, but in Zion, he is helpless, only guided by the Oracle. Whatever the Oracle tells him is the truth until the end of Reloaded where he breaks free of the cycles of incarnation, breaks free from his karma and creates his own path, and transitions finally to the seventh and most divine incarnation which represents Ram, the seventh Vishnu avatar in Hinduism. Ironically he MEETS Rama Kandra in Revolutions, where he finally learns the path to divinity is sacrifice. This parallels the story in the Ramayana where the two incarnations of Vishnu meet each other.

In the Ramayana, Parashurama battles Rama until the two realize they are of the same source (Vishnu) since neither can defeat the other. Then Parashurama realizes the purpose for his incarnation is over and he goes to meditate in the mountains. The train station where Neo and Rama Kandra meet IS the mountain upon which Parashurama ends his journey, it's between heaven (the Matrix), and Earth (Zion). That's where Neo makes his transition to the seventh avatar. On othe other end, Rama Kandra exists to help advance the "humanity" or the "soul" of the machines. He's there to also enlighten Neo as to how the Matrix is just as viable a reality as Zion is, and that the machines are just as viable a species as the humans are. They too have souls, and the proof of that comes from Sati (she is another Goddess in Hinduism, with a story that correlates with the Matrix as well).

In the mythological story for Sati, Sati is created by the gods who fear that Shiva will leave the world behind and meditate and they fear his devotees will do the same thing, which would mean the end of the world. So they create Sati in order to distract Shiva and "tame" him. Shiva falls in love with Sati and they are about to get married when Shiva insults Sati's father (showing he is untameable), and Sati then throws herself onto a funeral pyre and burns herself. A similar story occurs when Smith (representing Shiva, who is known as the God of destruction in Hinduism) absorbs Sati who is full of love, yet he mocks that love when he talks about cookies being full of love or whatever.

The Oracle's purpose is more behind-the-scenes, orchestrating Neo's rejection of his destiny when he comes face to face with the Architect. She shows Neo the path to the Self, through love with Trinity (who also represents the Holy Spirit in Christianity, and Shakti another Hindu goddess who happens to be the key to enlightenment when she merges with Shiva, which is representative of the kiss at the end of the Matrix and thus Neo's vision of what the Matrix really is). The Oracle represents Kali in Hinduism, the Goddess of birth and death, as she shuttles people from Heaven to Earth essentially. She's there to help push Neo to enlightenment and finally bring an end to the degenerate age the Matrix is in (which is what we are supposedly in right now, called Kali Yuga, the Iron Age in Hinduism). She is a key figure in the Matrix because she essentially, along with the Archtiect (Brahma the creator god in Hinduism), create the One program which is a way to bring about change in the Matrix because change rarely occurs in the Matrix. The Matrix is essentially eternity, and the only way to bring about change comes from conflict. Both the Architect and the Oracle essentially are the reasons for Neo and Smith's existence. Neo and Smith were chosen to be the elements of conflict. They have digital souls while Neo also has a real soul. Smith is unique because of this digital soul which compels him to break free of the Matrix, similar to Neo. Except Smith does it through hate and destruction. There's much more to this, but I basically spell out the mythological underpinnings of the trilogy. There's another level which the movie is based, which is upon the clash of the Ego and the Self or Atman.

[Boneho Chane]

Yeah, that was one of my reasons for disliking Indigo Prophecy. The Matrix had so much reason behind everything it did. Indigo Prophecy's idea were pointless and seemed to be thrown in there just to have style of The Matrix.

[Aj_]

Reloaded, Revolutions, and Fahrenheit have very similar style, I don't like all three, all cheap "style" for its own sake, no substance. The Matrix is one of my favourite films though, and I loved the The Animatrix much.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Aj_

Reloaded, Revolutions, and Fahrenheit have very similar style, I don't like all three, all cheap "style" for its own sake, no substance. The Matrix is one of my favourite films though, and I loved the The Animatrix much.

My thoughts exactly

[neovsmatrix]

Originally Posted by Aj_

Reloaded, Revolutions, and Fahrenheit have very similar style, I don't like all three, all cheap "style" for its own sake, no substance. The Matrix is one of my favourite films though, and I loved the The Animatrix much.

I'll agree about Fahrenheit, though it was entertaining while it lasted. I very much disagree about Reloaded and Revolutions, as they fleshed out the philosophy and themes in the original a lot. I always thought of the Matrix as a good flick, but a retread of past movies. The sequels helped distinguish the series and develop quite a bit of depth in it. It's not exactly like the Wachowskis are grand philosophers or anything like that, but they do incorporate philosophies from various areas into a thematically consistent narrative. Admittedly, the real flaw behind Reloaded and Revolutions is the shift away from Neo, Morpheus and Trinity to the Zion people who we don't really care about and thus it takes a significant hit as far as dramatic impact is concerned. Still, I find all three movies worth watching back-to-back.