[ATMachine]

I have to admit, although I loathed the copy-protection on Day 6 (not because it was copy protection but due to its lack of rationalization within the game story, unlike the Day 7 hand code), Days 6 and 7 are still pretty fun.

I do enjoy the quarterstaff duel with the Fens Monk quite a bit (on the default difficulty, you need to land 4 blows to kill the Fens Monk, but Robin can take a few more than that before he goes down).

I laughed at the conversation between Robin and the Prior (specifically at the dialogue that you get if you stole the puzzle box on Day 5). Great dramatic irony.

And the manuscripts are fun to read in the tower of the Monastery. Kurufinwe's right on that score; it's neat when a game provides little extra background details like that.

I already gave my reasons above for liking the Marian encounter on Day 7.

As Kuru also said above, the riddles on Day 7 aren't bad at all. And I do like the fact that you can mess up on a few them (unlike the Day 6 gem riddles, where you have to get right the whole designated sequence of 9 stones or die at once).

Although, catching a pixie can be difficult if you don't know how to time it. I didn't on my first time playing and kept messing up because I wanted to throw the net as soon as I saw it, not as soon as its music began to play.

[ATMachine]

Apologies for double-posting, but something just occurred to me.

As nearly perfect as this game is, there's one vital thing from the Robin Hood mythos (as commonly perceived) that's missing in Conquests of the Longbow:

Robin's famous pointed green cap with the red feather. Come on, doesn't everybody identify such a hat with Robin Hood?

Of course, it was probably impossible, given that King Graham already stole appropriated the style. And Roberta Williams wouldn't have let anybody at Sierra use an image that was so similar to one in King's Quest.

(Back when Quest for Glory II was being designed, she made Lori Cole replace the Djinni of the Lamp from the original Aladdin tale, who was supposed to be in the game at the end, with the Djinni of the Ring from the same story, since there was already a Lamp Djinni in KQ2. Apparently the fact that the games took place in different universes meant nothing to her. )

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

Day 6... my least favorite part of the game.

Why?

Spoiler:

The gemstone riddles. Not that I think copy protection is unfair somehow, or that the riddles are too hard (although they can be tricky). No, it's the fact that Robin has no reason to know the lore on which the black monks test him. And that shatters my suspension of disbelief.

On Day 7, Christy Marx makes a point to show how Robin learns the Hand Code and remembers it. It thus makes sense, from a story point of view, that he can use it later on effortlessly, even though the actual players have to go searching for their manuals.

But on Day 6, Robin is asked to identify the gemstones out of the blue. It's never shown that he knows the lore, but he would have to in order to survive.

The gemstone lore is probably not common knowledge; why else would the Fens Monks use it as a way to identify one of their own? I'd think they would want a foolproof code. So how does Robin know it?

Hmm. Actually, that never bothered me. You know why?

When I first played the game, I had just borrowed the floppies from a friend, so I didn't have the manual. In order to solve the gemstone puzzle, I had to take a guess, make a note of the result, and if it failed, reload. By a process of exclusion, I was eventually able to reconstruct enough of the gem lore to pass the riddles. In-game justification for the puzzle was the least of my concerns.

(For the hand code, I replayed the bit where Marian holds up the scroll about six or seven times, furiously copying down the positions of all the letters. For the coats of arms I just used trial and error. Finally, for the druidic names of the trees I had to ask my friend to have a look at the manual, and memorized exactly one of the names ("duir", though I later had to learn another one as well).

In fact, overcoming the copy protection, although tedious, added significantly to the challenge of the game, and ended up making it more fun for me, I think.

But now that you've brought it up, how do we rationalize Robin's ability to pass the gemstone riddles? Well, one explanation is that he just guesses, and that it's your role as a player to provide the guiding hand of providence that helps him get it right. (The probability of guessing correctly is 3/9 * 2/8 * 1/7 = 1/84 on each riddle, or 1/592,704 on all three.)

[After a brisk nap]

Day 8

In which Robin pretends to be . . . an archer?




and

Day 9

In which Robin Hood and his merry men party like it's 1193.




Stop and save after the cutscene that ends Day 9, at the beginning of Day 10. We will go on to the next bit on or around August 6th.

[Junkface]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

Do you think the line is too cutesy? Or is it that it breaks the fourth wall? Either way, I can understand how it would bother some people. It doesn't keep me from enjoying the rest of the scene, though.

I suppose it's more the fourth wall breaking - just destroys the atmosphere of that scene for me. Actually atmosphere in general is what I had a problem with in Day 6. On the inside the Fens monastery just looks and feels like a generic oppressive dungeon to me, even if the establishing shots of it and the fight with the monk are great.

(Back when Quest for Glory II was being designed, she made Lori Cole replace the Djinni of the Lamp from the original Aladdin tale, who was supposed to be in the game at the end, with the Djinni of the Ring from the same story, since there was already a Lamp Djinni in KQ2. Apparently the fact that the games took place in different universes meant nothing to her. )

Heh. I hadn't heard that before, though I think the change is probably for the better as it seems less commonplace how it is in the final game.

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

In fact, overcoming the copy protection, although tedious, added significantly to the challenge of the game, and ended up making it more fun for me, I think.

I had a similar experience with Quest for Glory 2, spending hours drawing up my own map of every alley and cul-de-sac in Shapier.

[ATMachine]

I absolutely love Days 8 and 9.

I LOVE that Robin chooses the name "Puck of Barnesdale" as an alias. Puck, of course, refers to the legendary trickster figure of English myth, who was immortalized by Shakespeare and is also known as "Robin Goodfellow." It's supremely fitting that Robin, a great trickster himself, would take the name of another such character who happens also to be a Robin.

And Barnsdale was actually the forest said to be Robin's home in the earliest Robin Hood ballads (as opposed to Sherwood, which almost everybody now associates with him). So taken as a whole, the name "Puck of Barnesdale" simply screams "I am Robin Hood."

Of course, the Sheriff is too dumb to figure it out.

Day 9. What can I say? It's hilarious. Absolutely superb writing.

Oh, it's sort of fun to visit Lobb on Day 9 when you're disguised as a Jeweler. He reacts differently depending on whether Robin has dyed his beard yet or not. Plus, when you enter the street outside his shop, you might be lucky enough to see another Easter Egg: a literal "bug in the game."

[Ninth]

I have 4290 points at the beginning of day 10. What's the max?

Overall, I like the game a lot, even though some days are clearly much better than the others. What's funny is that they're all very different. Some focus on the narrative, some on the exploration (day 2), others on the talking (day 9), the action (day 8), or simply the puzzles (day 5).
It's fun.

One thing, though; I think the playthrough is going on a tad too slowly. Not slowly enough that I wouldn't care anymore, but still too slow to be really immersive. Plus most puzzles are so easy that they don't require much thinking.
But that's nitpicking.

[ATMachine]

Since Ninth asked, my scores for days 8 and 9:

Day 8 max score: 4290 (4390 if puzzle box is open)
Day 8 min score: 920 - (50*N) (see Day 6 score for explanation of the variable)

Day 9 max score: 4800 (4900 if puzzle box is open)
Day 9 min score: 905 - (50*N) (yes, you lose more points than you gain)

Musings on the min scores:

Spoiler:

You can't threaten the yeoman with your bow and live; he'll shoot Robin on the spot. Instead, let him pass, and go back to camp to get his clothes from Little John. You'll automatically be late for the archery tournament and thus be unable to win the Golden Arrow.

I'm pretty sure you must meet with the Scholar in gray and brown robes at the Fair before the day can end. To get the max min points, give the wrong answer (say "nay") when the Scholar shows you the coat of arms Marian mentioned. Afterward, talk to him again and get it right this time. Now, when he asks for the Hand Scroll, wait until he gets annoyed and walks away. Then give it to him.

On Day 9, seize the jeweler's costume using the bow. Don't apply the rouge, though. Instead go into the Sheriff's chamber with a yellow beard. Don't say anything or present the jewels; just try to leave the room. The Sheriff will throw you out and the day can now end.

Again, if I'm missing a way to finish with fewer points, please let me know.

Oh, and has anyone else tried out the alternate method of conning the Sheriff out of his money (disguised as Puck the archer)? It gets you less ransom, and it's worth fewer points, but it's still interesting.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

I absolutely love Days 8 and 9.

Huh. I actually think they're the weakest part of the game. As I said, Day 5 is the high point for me, but I quite like Day 6 (for the atmospheric swamp setting) and Day 7 (mostly for the riddles) as well. But 8 and 9... ugh!

Day 8 starts out well enough, with a very entertaining bit of back and forth with your men, which really makes me excited to go to the fair. But stopping yet another traveler to gain yet another disguise? This is becoming awfully convenient by now. Why doesn't Robin just keep a set of costumes in his camp, so he can dress up for any occasion?

Anyway, the fair is where it all falls apart for me. In a game that is otherwise somewhat lacking in character interaction (I would have liked to meet some of my other 25 or so merry men), here there are suddenly dozens, maybe a hundred people you could possibly interact with. As an obsessive-compulsive adventure gamer, this leaves me no choice other than to try to look, talk to and interact with every person on every screen. Which takes forever and is almost entirely pointless.

Add to that the numerous in-jokes, which may be funny the first few times but get real old by the time you've talked to Christy Marx, Josh Mandel, Two Guys from Andromeda, Lori and Corey Cole, and the guy trying to figure out how to use a computer mouse (just to mention a few), and you get a segment that just about kills any enjoyment I've had so far.


WTF are you talking about? You're Robin fricking Hood! You're the prince of bloody thieves!

Oh, and by the way, I don't get why that scroll is so critical. It's a piece of paper with a picture of a hand. Big deal. You mean the Queen's agents can't memorize their secret code without a visual aid?

And Day 9... Robin hides from the Sheriff's men, just to head over the Watling Road and blow his horn. Does that seem like a good idea? Another disguise is conveniently provided. While I appreciate the structure this device gives the gameplay, it's just becoming monotonous now. Also, the con by which Robin lures the Sheriff into the woods seriously overstretches my suspension of disbelief. Yeah, I know Robin's antagonists are supposed to be comically stupid, but riding alone into a forest controlled by an outlaw carrying a fortune in treasure, based on an implausible (not so much for the dragon as for the "oh, selling precious gems is such a drag" spiel) story told by a suspicious-looking stranger? It might work in a children's story. It does not work for me.

Originally Posted by Ninth

One thing, though; I think the playthrough is going on a tad too slowly. Not slowly enough that I wouldn't care anymore, but still too slow to be really immersive. Plus most puzzles are so easy that they don't require much thinking.

Personally, I couldn't keep up with more than this. Maybe it's my leave-no-stone-unturned style of gameplay. Maybe it's playing two games for both the max and minimum scores. Maybe I'm just savoring the experience. But I've spent many hours each week to play through the segment. The game is so rich that just rushing through along the shortest path from one breakpoint to the next will leave you seriously missing out.

There are two more segments till the end of the game, I think, though if you guys think they are too short, I suppose we could merge them.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

Personally, I couldn't keep up with more than this. Maybe it's my leave-no-stone-unturned style of gameplay. Maybe it's playing two games for both the max and minimum scores. Maybe I'm just savoring the experience. But I've spent many hours each week to play through the segment. The game is so rich that just rushing through along the shortest path from one breakpoint to the next will leave you seriously missing out.

There are two more segments till the end of the game, I think, though if you guys think they are too short, I suppose we could merge them.

That's probably because it's my first playthrough, so I'm after seeing the game and story unfold rather than trying to get every point (or every negative point).

No matter, though, better too slow than too fast.

[ATMachine]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

Add to that the numerous in-jokes, which may be funny the first few times but get real old by the time you've talked to Christy Marx, Josh Mandel, Two Guys from Andromeda, Lori and Corey Cole, and the guy trying to figure out how to use a computer mouse (just to mention a few), and you get a segment that just about kills any enjoyment I've had so far.

Personally, I loved the in-jokes. Maybe it's because I grew up on LucasArts games, where such things were de rigueur ("I'm selling these fine leather jackets" comes to mind). But the sheer number of them here does take away a bit from the mostly serious nature of the game, I'll agree.

Oh, and by the way, I don't get why that scroll is so critical. It's a piece of paper with a picture of a hand. Big deal. You mean the Queen's agents can't memorize their secret code without a visual aid?

You know, you're right. And how the heck will they make the letters appear without Marian anyway? Is Queen Eleanor a priestess too or something?

If I were writing a Longbow movie, the Hand Code and the scroll (along with the gem riddles) would be the first things I'd leave out.

And Day 9... Robin hides from the Sheriff's men, just to head over the Watling Road and blow his horn. Does that seem like a good idea? Another disguise is conveniently provided. While I appreciate the structure this device gives the gameplay, it's just becoming monotonous now. Also, the con by which Robin lures the Sheriff into the woods seriously overstretches my suspension of disbelief. Yeah, I know Robin's antagonists are supposed to be comically stupid, but riding alone into a forest controlled by an outlaw carrying a fortune in treasure, based on an implausible (not so much for the dragon as for the "oh, selling precious gems is such a drag" spiel) story told by a suspicious-looking stranger? It might work in a children's story. It does not work for me.

I, on the other hand, think it's wonderful. I'd say part of Robin Hood's intrinsic appeal is the quality of the fantastic deeds he engages in. Deep down inside a lot of people, there's a desire to escape ordinary life, to live free, to get revenge on one's oppressors, and Robin Hood embodies that. I think he appeals to the child in us all, on some level. This wish-fulfillment is probably part of the reason the original ballads were popular in the late medieval period.

Besides, he's a modern legend, a trickster figure like the ones from myths, and most legends have a degree of the unbelievable in them. The only difference is that Robin is a character still loved today, and people in these times expect a more "adult" story. I think Christy Marx did a brilliant job blending these two aspects of Robin, the serious/adult and the comic/fantasy. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Your point about the monotony of finding disguises repeatedly is a good one, though.

[ATMachine]

I thought I'd post something that may interest those folks who're fans of classic movies as well as Conquests of the Longbow.

Recently I purchased the DVD of the 1938 Errol Flynn classic The Adventures of Robin Hood. While watching it, I noticed a few characters who look very similar to their counterparts in Longbow. Specifically, it seems the artists at Sierra based their versions of the Abbot and King Richard (along with Richard's knights) on the movie costumes.

Have a look:




Aside from a slightly less monochromatic wardrobe, that is the Abbot, right down to the funny hat with the gold braided cord. Although in the movie he's the "Bishop of the Black Canons" and bosses around monks wearing black robes with quarterstaves (who look exactly like the Fens Monks, oddly enough).



The only differences between Richard in the movie and in the game are that the king in Longbow has a full beard (while the one in the movie settles for a goatee), and in the game Richard has a crown on top of his chainmail hood.

[MoriartyL]

After my bad experience with Day 5, I was less than eager to get back to the game, which means that I am now four days behind the rest of you. So I figured I'd play for a few hours now and catch up. And then I started the day and once again got lost almost instantly. I'm getting really sick of this. I don't know who this black monk was, I don't know why Robin's supposed to be dressing in his clothes, and I have no idea what "Fens" are. HELP!!

I did the easy fight, took the clothes, and then wandered to every spot on the map I could think of hoping it would lead somewhere, since the beginning of the day had not explained what was going on! Honestly, how hard is it to stick in a line of dialogue about the day ahead?! I am quickly losing respect for Christy Marx for making me go through this every single day. The dialogue with the Abbott was funny, but now what?

[MoriartyL]

(Sorry for dragging the discussion back, but I really want to play this game through and it is driving me crazy.)

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

After my bad experience with Day 5, I was less than eager to get back to the game, which means that I am now four days behind the rest of you. So I figured I'd play for a few hours now and catch up. And then I started the day and once again got lost almost instantly. I'm getting really sick of this. I don't know who this black monk was, I don't know why Robin's supposed to be dressing in his clothes, and I have no idea what "Fens" are. HELP!!

I did the easy fight, took the clothes, and then wandered to every spot on the map I could think of hoping it would lead somewhere, since the beginning of the day had not explained what was going on! Honestly, how hard is it to stick in a line of dialogue about the day ahead?! I am quickly losing respect for Christy Marx for making me go through this every single day. The dialogue with the Abbott was funny, but now what?

So you're on day 6, is that it? If I remember correctly, the game tells you about the Fens on day 5, or maybe before. and if you look at your map, you will see that there's a Fens Monastery.
So logically, dressing in a Fens' robes should allow you to enter the Fens monastery.

[MoriartyL]

"Fens Monastery"? [blink, blink] Where's that?

[After a brisk nap]

A fen (usually pluralized to "the fens") means "low, flat, swampy land; a bog or marsh." If you look at the map, there's a castle symbol in the lower left, in the middle of the river. That's the Fens Monastery. Go there dressed in the black monk's robes, then find a trick to cross the swamp.

[MoriartyL]

Thanks. You guys go on ahead with the next section; don't worry about me.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

And then I started the day and once again got lost almost instantly. I'm getting really sick of this. I don't know who this black monk was, I don't know why Robin's supposed to be dressing in his clothes, and I have no idea what "Fens" are. HELP!!

I did the easy fight, took the clothes, and then wandered to every spot on the map I could think of hoping it would lead somewhere, since the beginning of the day had not explained what was going on! Honestly, how hard is it to stick in a line of dialogue about the day ahead?! I am quickly losing respect for Christy Marx for making me go through this every single day.

I appreciate that you're frustrated, but I don't think it's fair to blame Christy Marx:









Those last two images are from the start of the day.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by ATMachine

I, on the other hand, think it's wonderful. I'd say part of Robin Hood's intrinsic appeal is the quality of the fantastic deeds he engages in. Deep down inside a lot of people, there's a desire to escape ordinary life, to live free, to get revenge on one's oppressors, and Robin Hood embodies that. I think he appeals to the child in us all, on some level. This wish-fulfillment is probably part of the reason the original ballads were popular in the late medieval period.

Besides, he's a modern legend, a trickster figure like the ones from myths, and most legends have a degree of the unbelievable in them. The only difference is that Robin is a character still loved today, and people in these times expect a more "adult" story. I think Christy Marx did a brilliant job blending these two aspects of Robin, the serious/adult and the comic/fantasy. Of course, your mileage may vary.

No, you're quite right, and I think the nature of this exploit is perfect. It's just that I find the con itself too silly to be believable. It doesn't make me thrill with Robin's clever chutzpah, it just makes me think that with lies like that, it's only his enemies' extreme stupidity that has kept him from getting captured, not his own cunning.

I'll try the yeoman version of the sequence. Maybe that will appeal more to me.