[Fairygdmther]

Have you ever noticed how, in adv games, with all the old (sometimes very old) devices that we need to get to work, that all we ever do is supply some missing part, and shazam! it works again!

Don't they ever clean off the rust, and oil the workings? Now I'm no mechanic - I'm a nurse, but, damn - even in a cave, with possible slime all over things, they never need to clean it up or replace a gasket, or put in an oil filter, or any of those mundane things that would make them more realistic.

Now I know it's a game, and doesn't have to be totally realistic, but really...

Look at Syberia, with all those mechanical devices, and the only time Kate had to use oil was on Oscar, who rusted up in lightning quick time.

Lynsie

[Sage]

Excellent point, FGM!
Would it be that big a deal to have a functional oil can as an inventory item? And furthermore to require that a given machine be oiled at a certain number of locations before it is operable?
Since many mechanical devices in adventure games appear to have remained abandoned and unused for long periods of time, the requirement of a little lubrication seems only logical.
Another suggestion might be that one be required to replace dry-rotted rubber components such as hoses or belts. This certainly happens in the real world, and having to do so in an adventure game would add verisimilitude.

[Fairygdmther]

Thanks, Scott, I always like to have my opinion backed by competent authority.

Even if a machine were to be covered by a tarp, rats sometimes will eat the rubber, and various other vermin will nest in the works. The machines are never even dusty, no matter how long they've been abandoned. In real life, if they started at all, they'd probably blow up, or at least overheat.

To use Scott's 50 cent word, we need more verisimilitude.

Lynsie

[MoriartyL]

...You're looking for realism? In an adventure game? [blink, blink] It's not realistic to have all those puzzles lying around in the first place! Force the player to oil everything and fiddle with things, and it's not only still not realistic, but it wouldn't even be as much fun! I mean, brain-teasers are one thing. I don't like them, but I can respect them. Simply messing around with machinery doesn't challenge the brain, just the patience.

[EvoG]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

...You're looking for realism? In an adventure game? [blink, blink] It's not realistic to have all those puzzles lying around in the first place! Force the player to oil everything and fiddle with things, and it's not only still not realistic, but it wouldn't even be as much fun! I mean, brain-teasers are one thing. I don't like them, but I can respect them. Simply messing around with machinery doesn't challenge the brain, just the patience.

I'm not sure if you're being entirely serious or not, but, I grew up dismantling toys and electronics, especially ones with mechanical parts, to see how they worked. Hell, I recently had to change OLD skeleton key locks on two doors and was fascinated to see how they actually worked. PLUS, a tension spring popped bringing the whole cluster crashing apart, and while it took a bit of time understanding what the parts did, I eventually figured it out. I left satisfied in both the fact that its working again, and that I now have an intimate understanding of how the lock internals work.

I've been a huge proponent of 'construction' or 'repair' puzzles and have been heavily working them into our productions, desperately trying to avoid arbitrary color/sound/lever/block puzzles.

The high concept is that if well done, "puzzles" like these allow for real-world association of parts; relationships and hierarchy. You're not fighting abstraction of alien devices that "just work", and are now fiddling with tangible and recognizable functionality. This is the big reason why Half-Life2's physics puzzles worked so well. You were immediately able to recognize patterns and object-function and associate them realistically to the direct problem at hand.

Of course ultimately...to each their own.


Cheers

[MoriartyL]

If you do stuff like this in real life, that's all well and good. But when you have to save the world or solve a mystery or bumble through a plotline, you're not going to sit down and start taking apart someone else's machinery.

[Melanie68]

You had to lube machines up in Voyage (in fact you had to make your own lube!).

[EvoG]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

If you do stuff like this in real life, that's all well and good. But when you have to save the world or solve a mystery or bumble through a plotline, you're not going to sit down and start taking apart someone else's machinery.

I dont see how they're exclusive. I dont get many opportunities to work wild mechanical inventions by Archimedes or the like.

Let's cut to the chase though...my tastes in AG's are of the Lucasarts/Sierra ilk(character games), and I dont care for first person "thrillers". Therefore I enjoy world/inventory interaction, so I dont see how 'what' I do regarding inventory or world is any different if I'm combining a newspaper with a wad of gum and a bottlecap, or if I'm rebuilding or fixing an ancient machine with parts I found scattered around, including using modern contrivances. Simple fact is that I can ideally see the workings of the machine and what is deficient, and build up upon the solution.

Don't think of the lamest, most boring representation of what we're talking about to base your opinion on...thats too convenient. Think about this for a moment before assuming its unrelated and silly when indeed it is most certainly not.


Cheers

[MoriartyL]

I'm sorry; I don't understand. When can such a puzzle be placed in the middle of a story and be considered halfway "realistic"?

[EvoG]

Huh? Lets start over...what do 'you' think we're talking about (dont repeat what FGM said about lube)

[MoriartyL]

I was trying to point out the absurdity of basing an argument of how adventure puzzles "ought to be" on how it would work in the real world. Did I err?

[insane_cobra]

I agree with Mory (wow, a first? ), it might add to the realism, but it would hardly add anything to gameplay, unless it's treated like a puzzle (see the example Mel provided).

[EvoG]

Well I think thats the gist...that it is treated like a puzzle. What did I say different then?

[insane_cobra]

Nothing, I guess, your post was just too long to read.

[EvoG]

Damn...

[Fairygdmther]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

You had to lube machines up in Voyage (in fact you had to make your own lube!).

Excellent! I haven't played it yet, but I have it here, so I will.

EvoG said it better than I did, "The high concept is that if well done, "puzzles" like these allow for real-world association of parts; relationships and hierarchy. You're not fighting abstraction of alien devices that "just work", and are now fiddling with tangible and recognizable functionality. This is the big reason why Half-Life2's physics puzzles worked so well. You were immediately able to recognize patterns and object-function and associate them realistically to the direct problem at hand."

FGM