05-02-2006, 10:56 AM | #61 | |
capsized.
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Yay(1). This thread started rather cute, but went downhill soon after. It's one of these extremely predictable, formulaic, stale, stubborn, (...) thingamobs. It isn't even *that* much fun to read. On top of that, its budget obviously didn't allow for pretty cutscenes (120+ minutes). Crisp writing. Or anything. IMPORTANT NOTE: *nudge*nudge* So, eh, I'm playing two p&c'ers (sort of) at the moment. A football, er, soccer management game (flame me!!!) and "Realms Of Arkania - Blade Of Destiny", a create-a-party-of-six-and-kick-the-hell-out-of-orcs kind of game. Oldschool! Yay(2). And hey, stop picking at Jeysie. She adores "Torment", hence she's awesome. No matter what!
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05-02-2006, 10:59 AM | #62 |
woof
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Football Management!? You monster!
*SHUNNED*
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05-02-2006, 10:59 AM | #63 |
The Thread™ will die.
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Blades of Destiny? I do hope you spend all your time fighting in the pirate town. And beware of one of the most annoying fights in the world later on when you fight the wizard that summons dozens of enemies .
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05-02-2006, 11:42 AM | #64 | ||
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Or are you saying that PC-only games are by definition not mainstream?
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05-02-2006, 11:55 AM | #65 | |
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I've been playing PC games since 1986, I've had plenty of practice with direct control, keyboard, mouse, with shooters, platforms, adventures, with real-time 3D, 2D, point&click, whathaveyounot. I'm quite, quite sure that I will not be getting better at direct control with either mouse or keyboard than I am now. |
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05-02-2006, 11:57 AM | #66 | |
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05-02-2006, 12:05 PM | #67 |
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Okay. Any discussion about personal attitudes should be held out of this thread from now on. No exceptions. There is more than enough misunderstanding and, as RLacey has put it, applying blanket statements even when we do remain on topic.
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05-02-2006, 11:06 PM | #68 | |||
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Many friends that are ordinary guys owning a PS2 or an X-Box suddenly get all excited about Fahrenheit or Dreamfall and asking if there are more games like the above two... There is this nice buzz that I love, reminds me of the old days, people regardless their favourite genre talk and talk on great extent about these two titles in forums, in cafeterias, in IRC channels, everywhere. That’s good, that’s healthy, I can’t recall another adventure that caused such a turbulence in the mainstream apart from these two. Quote:
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05-03-2006, 01:19 AM | #69 | |||
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Regardless, I made no statements - I am only refuting yours ("p&c is dead") as ungrounded. Quote:
Moreover, not being p'n'c is far from being the only thing that sets Dreamfall and Fahrenheit apart. You mention several yourself. They are 3D, contain action sequences, have excellent production values, are clearly addressed at mature audiences, while being accessible in terms of ("cerebral") difficulty. And let's not forget tiny insignificant thing called marketing. By the way, since you brought up the sales argument, can you link to whatever you're basing it on? I always find it hard to find reliable sales figures for games. Quote:
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05-03-2006, 03:28 AM | #70 | ||||
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Please do not mention RTSs again... It’s true and undoubted that p&c is the best way for these games untill someone comes up with an alternative method. Quote:
On the contrary you are comparing comedies with dramas. Both are movies as both games are games but dramas and comedies within the movies sphere are different things. If Dreamfall and Fahrenheit were FPS, RTGs, Platforms etc. I could understand your point but their not. Quote:
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05-03-2006, 05:19 AM | #71 | |||||
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I'll make an attempt at explaining your logical fallacy better. If X="point'n'click", Y="not a mainstream success", then you said "If an adventure game is X, it is also Y" ("Unfortunately poin'n'click adventure games at least for mainstream success are dead."). When I replied that I'm not convinced you said Dreamfall and Fahrenheit should be enough to convince me. But these two games are neither X nor Y! If you think they support your statement in any way, then you must agree they also support: "Unfortunately single player-charater adventure games at least for mainstream success are dead.", "Unfortunately difficult adventure games at least for mainstream success are dead." (this one is probably true, though ), "Unfortunately adventure games not developed in Europe at least for mainstream success are dead.". Quote:
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05-03-2006, 08:11 AM | #72 |
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I´ve followed this thread without ever having played a game with keyboard control: arrows and WASD.
Then I got BS The sleeping dragon and it turns out to be this kind of control. Now I´m staggering around like a drunk person. I can hardly walk straight on the sidewalk, but it´s kind of fun to slowly get the hang of it. Hopefully I´ll improve a lot more.
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05-03-2006, 12:02 PM | #73 | |
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As for the point n' click argument we are doing circles. I do believe that p&c is for the niche AG market only and is a disastrous choice for commercial success. In fact I think Paradise will be one of the last if not the last p&c AG we will see from a major publisher like Ubisoft. You ask me to back it up and I told you that two of the most commercially successful adventure games of the last couple of years were Dreamfall and Fahrenheit. Neither of them is a p&c game. In strict mathematical logic that does not mean that a p&c AG can't be a commercial success but it is an indication and by me this indication means that people (apart from adventure gamers) are sick of p&c and want something else. Adventures seem to get back to the core of their existence, telling a story and telling a story doesn't necessarily need a p&c interface. |
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05-03-2006, 12:31 PM | #74 | |
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In any case, interface is only one of several obvious, crucial differences between those games and traditional adventures. You may want to just ignore other successful genres that also use point and click because it doesn't suit your theory, but the fact remains that mainstream gamers DO embrace it as a viable interface if implemented in a game they want to play. The question then becomes whether traditional adventures are games that most people want to play. Probably not. BTW, consoles are irrelevant to this discussion. I think it's pretty safe to say that point and click is not very popular on systems that don't (or only marginally) allow for it. I can't imagine keyboard controls are all that popular with console gamers, either. |
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05-03-2006, 02:15 PM | #75 |
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Well, I personally have absolutely no problem with direct control. Alright, so I'm an UT2004 junkie, and pretty good at it, so that moving around with arrows and turning with mouse is instinctive. Yet, point and click can be good as well. For example, all the RTS games I'm played are esentially that, although efficient use of keyboard shortcuts can change the tide. I think this last type of games really goes back to that "executive" feel of using p n' c, while direct control is like using your own body to do things. However, the GK3 system felt like a hybrid of both, controlling the camera in a direct control way, yet using a p n' c to interact with the environment. I absolutely adored ths scheme, but I don't think it was that widely accepted, maybe because people want one or the other.
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05-03-2006, 02:39 PM | #76 |
woof
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I havent played all the way through GK3 since im waiting to play the first 2, But having to controll 2 things at once can be quite bothersome...
I think the way BS4 is going to work sounds like a good idea, Since theres a choice of both im assuming that when using direct control you still have the cursor to interact with stuff.
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05-03-2006, 09:20 PM | #77 | |
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05-03-2006, 09:38 PM | #78 | ||
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In GK3 the focus is not Gabe or Grace, but the environment. Thus you can move the camera away from the characters in order to examine things and look for hotspots or clues.
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05-03-2006, 10:03 PM | #79 |
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It's more than applicable in 2D. Just play any of the old console RPGs(Final Fantasy 1-6) to see how that works. I know the Wintermute Engine has a direct control option to go along with the standard point & click in their templates, so developers can implement both.
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05-03-2006, 11:13 PM | #80 | |||
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