05-01-2006, 06:55 AM | #21 | |
Rattenmonster
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,404
|
Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, Al Emmo allows you to move Al around with the keyboard arrows, as well as with the mouse. I'm sure there are other point & click games that do it (I know some of Sierra's did). |
|
05-01-2006, 06:56 AM | #22 |
woof
|
Syberia does it aswell
__________________
"I've got nothing to lose! Except for...well everything." |
05-01-2006, 07:01 AM | #23 | |
Ronin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 429
|
Quote:
|
|
05-01-2006, 07:03 AM | #24 | |
Hopeful skeptic
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 7,743
|
Quote:
And yeah, old Sierra games would definitely be examples of using direct control in 2D games. That's what I meant by being limited, though. Four directional keys and the environment never changes or reacts to your movement, so I'm not sure it adds a lot. |
|
05-01-2006, 07:04 AM | #25 | |
woof
|
Quote:
Well the falling into crevas thing isnt the fault of Direct control, it sounds like bad design. And having to climb a big staircase for an out of the way switch isnt the fault of Direct control either, cause point and click wouldnt make it go any faster
__________________
"I've got nothing to lose! Except for...well everything." |
|
05-01-2006, 07:08 AM | #26 | ||
Dungeon Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,152
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I? |
||
05-01-2006, 09:56 AM | #27 |
Ronin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 429
|
Not sure how I was being unfair, because I agree with everything you just said. Maybe it was my choice of the word "grunt"? Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. In my mind, it's no worse to be a grunt than to be an "undextrous schlep." I always strive to deprecate myself as much as my readers.
|
05-01-2006, 01:27 PM | #28 |
Elegantly copy+pasted
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,773
|
I do play a lot of "Tomb Raider style" games (in fact, the last few commercial games I played were Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, POP: Two Thrones, Beyond Good & Evil, Psychonauts, Fahrenheit, Dreamfall and the Tomb Raider Legends demo, so I guess lately I only play that type of games), but I agree that direct control is a bit micro-managey for adventure games. In the best 3rd-person 3D games, moving around is a thrill. It's just plain fun to run along walls, jump, twist, skid, zigzag, climb, crouch and dive (and sometimes fly, float, bounce and roll, depending on the game); throwing the camera around to inspect every angle, or just to admire the view.
I haven't seen an adventure game that offers that thrill (to any great degree), and I'm not sure it's possible while remaining a real adventure (though improving the camera controls would do a great deal to help). That leaves guiding every step of my character as essentially a chore. I played Dreamfall pretty much all day yesterday, and it certainly did occur to me that I had better things to do than making sure Zoe could cross the street without getting stuck behind a crate. Or, rather, that I wish there were better things to do in the game than making sure Zoe didn't get stuck behind crates.
__________________
Please excuse me. I've got to see a man about a dog. |
05-01-2006, 01:32 PM | #29 | |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,907
|
Quote:
|
|
05-01-2006, 06:22 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California, US
Posts: 261
|
People just like different stuff. I'll happily play "point and click" but I prefer direct control, as it makes me feel like I'm really there. It engages me.
Once I get into any game, I get used to the navigation (mostly). I just prefer direct control. And no, it doesn't feel like micro management to me. |
05-01-2006, 06:34 PM | #31 | ||
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Quote:
On that note why should I sympathize with you? If I can keep practicing and getting better (as those who whined and bitched when the mouse first came out and began replacing keyboard controls got better by simply complying and practicing), so can you and a lot of others. Quote:
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
||
05-01-2006, 08:29 PM | #32 |
Beyond Belief
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,186
|
Direct control allows for much greater control on where you move in the enviroment, which usually means you get where you want to, and faster. It's also much better for immersion into the world.
Non-direct control is only suitable for selecting and moving multiple objects, such as in a RTS. Given the choice between the two, I don't know anyone who uses non-direct mouse controlled movement in World of Warcraft. Getting stuck on objects isn't always the games fault, on some games it definitely is, but there are horrible implementations of non-direct control, I've heard The Moment of Silence isn't too good in this regard. A lot of games that don't have any platforming gameplay, like Beyond Good and Evil, don't allow you to walk off cliffs. I don't really have a problem with that, in the games I have played, you must really be distracted before you're not able to see a cliff edge. There are games that use a mouse for direct control over movement, one good example is Diablo. I find that journeys using direct control are less anoying than ones using non-direct control, watching the computer control a character to a place, doesn't seem like playing to me. When all I'm doing is watching a game, then I start to question whether it's a game at all. Of course being as lazy as the next person I like the shortcuts where you can teleport to place where appropriate. I find point-and-click games as easy to control as direct control games, so really it's not about focusing on higher "officer" pursuits, compared to lower "grunt" simple tasks.
__________________
Richard Dawkins :: AAI 07 :: NOVA ID on Trial :: Skeptic's Guide :: Beyond Belief :: Out Campaign :: NeuroLogica :: Skepticality |
05-01-2006, 11:07 PM | #33 | |
Diva of Death
|
Quote:
__________________
Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
|
05-01-2006, 11:24 PM | #34 |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Perhaps some people aren't good at certain types of controls in games, but it certainly doesn't help that they blame some game designers for trying things different from what they expect. People like Ragnar Tornquist ultimately don't owe them anything, and my sympathies for them that a game happens to be direct control, but hey! that's reality.
Like I've always been saying, there are plenty....no, TONS of adventure games out there and upcoming that already have controls they're used to playing, and games like Dreamfall as still in the extreme minority. So YOUR BS is not appreciated, Jeysie. Certainly not by me. If you don't like the controls in these games, you can always go play another adventure game with controls you do like.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
05-01-2006, 11:29 PM | #35 | |
gin soaked boy
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Virovitica, Croatia
Posts: 4,093
|
Quote:
EDIT: Actually, if my memory serves me well, you can use both in Diablo so you just might be right.
__________________
What you piss in is yours for life. |
|
05-01-2006, 11:34 PM | #36 | |
Diva of Death
|
Quote:
While I dislike direct control, I'm not going to weigh in whether game designers should use it or not. If a game designer does use a control system I don't like, I'll just do what I always do... shrug and play something else. No, I was commenting on nothing more than your attitude of "if you're not good at it, it means you're not trying hard enough," which is admittedly is one of my "buttons". Rather ironic that you gave me a snotty attitude in response to my complaining about your original snotty attitude.
__________________
Adventures in Roleplaying (Nov. 19): "Maybe it's still in the Elemental Plane of Candy." "Is the Elemental Plane of Candy anything like Willy Wonka's factory?" "If it is, would that mean Oompa Loompas are Candy Elementals?" "Actually, I'm thinking more like the Candyland board game. But, I like this idea better." "I like the idea of Oompa Loompa Elementals." |
|
05-01-2006, 11:51 PM | #37 | |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Quote:
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
|
05-02-2006, 01:05 AM | #38 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4
|
Quote:
On direct controls, I like them, more intuitive than point-and-click, more sense of immersion, what more do you want, eh? Wii? |
|
05-02-2006, 01:58 AM | #39 | |
Dungeon Master
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,152
|
Quote:
As for "pure" adventure games where moving (in this case, crawling ) around is a joy in itself, Bad Mojo instantly comes to mind.
__________________
What's happening? Wh... Where am I? |
|
05-02-2006, 03:56 AM | #40 | |
Easily amused
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,091
|
Quote:
Spoiler:But I perservered because they were in the minority of the puzzles and loved the maze feel of the game. My skills did get marginally better by the end of the game (I didn't have to keep looking down as much), but never enough to entice me to use the keyboard again in any game. Perhaps if I kept at it, it would become easy, but these are games after all and if I feel like I'm working at it, it takes all the fun away. Besides, as someone else replied, there are a good choice of mouse driven games to play, so I'll give my support to those instead.
__________________
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 00637228). |
|