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Old 04-26-2006, 07:50 AM   #1
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Default Dreamfall Constructive Criticism

A little background first. I only played the demo for Longest Journey back in the day. I really know nothing about it or when I picked up Dreamfall. I came into the game with ZERO expectations.

Postive:

* Great art direction / beautiful scenery
* Interesting characters
* Great voice acting
* Great writing

Negative:

* If you are gonna put in action sequences in an adventure, try to make them funner or better programmed at least more than a poor Sega Genesis game

* Maybe it's just me, but everyone is ranting and raving about the story. I am on Chapter 5 and with all the switching around and bouncing between characters, my attention is really starting to lessen

* Why is Zoe's character model so well done and looks like it has 1000's of polygons while most of the other characters look straight out of The Sims 1. What has Funcom been doing for SEVEN years?

* This is a whole other topic but needs to be brought up here. Why all of a sudden, in the last little while has the overuse of profanity become "ok" or "cool" because it makes the story more "realistic"!? Seriously, here I am enjoying the game and then all of a sudden here comes Marcus and it's like the developers turn into pre-pubesecent teenagers that have just discovered swearing. Stupid and necessary.

Overall, I really enjoyed the first few chapters of the game but can someone reassure me that it gets better than the fragmented story with crappy combat sequences mixed it?
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Old 04-26-2006, 07:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
* This is a whole other topic but needs to be brought up here. Why all of a sudden, in the last little while has the overuse of profanity become "ok" or "cool" because it makes the story more "realistic"!? Seriously, here I am enjoying the game and then all of a sudden here comes Marcus and it's like the developers turn into pre-pubesecent teenagers that have just discovered swearing. Stupid and necessary.
Because it makes the characters more Human?

while I didn't play the new game (yet...), in TLJ the swears were an important part of the atmosphere of Stark, it emphasized the difference between the modern world of Stark and the fantasy world of Arcadia.

and anyway - can anyone imagine 'the flipper' without all the swearing?
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Old 04-26-2006, 08:03 AM   #3
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While I agree with you that some humans talk that way, it just totally threw everything off for me. I just don't know why that content has to be put in. Like I said, ocassionaly some of the actors swear and it sounds natural but characters like Marcus seem WAY overdone and I find it annoying and stupid that developers have to put that in.

You can create a GREAT game and GREAT story without of the profanity.

Ok, Gabriel Knight was a gritty story but it didn't have strings of four letter words -- If they would have added it would it have been any better? No.
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Old 04-26-2006, 08:09 AM   #4
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What more do you want out of the stealth sequences? They're simple and effective and fit into the story...would you remove them completely or have an entirely different mechanism? I for one enjoy all the stealth sequences...and I'm glad they're not as complicated as something like the Theif games.

As far as the swearing goes: I don't think it's profanity for the sake of profanity. We all know someone who uses profanity every other word - it tells something about their character...generally they're insensitive and selfish. Seems to fit Marcus quite well.
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Old 04-26-2006, 08:19 AM   #5
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The stealth part is ok, I mean, when you DO have to fight, it feels like a broken PSX game meaning if some crappy company made a fighting game back in 1995, that is what it would look, play and sound like.

I just find it interesting that all of a sudden in that last few years it's like someone got the green light to include a bunch of profanity where it wasn't necessary before. I find it interesting that adventure games in particular where never profanity laden.. until now.
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Old 04-26-2006, 08:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
I just find it interesting that all of a sudden in that last few years it's like someone got the green light to include a bunch of profanity where it wasn't necessary before. I find it interesting that adventure games in particular where never profanity laden.. until now.
There we go again. I wish I could link to the enormous discussion we had about TLJ's swearing on the official TLJ forums a few years back .
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Old 04-26-2006, 09:03 AM   #7
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The Dutch version of TLJ wasn't so bad. Or is that just me having a thick skin?
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Old 04-26-2006, 09:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilaf
As far as the swearing goes: I don't think it's profanity for the sake of profanity. We all know someone who uses profanity every other word - it tells something about their character...generally they're insensitive and selfish. Seems to fit Marcus quite well.
That's the biggest load of shit ever... they could just be Irish.

People who don't use profanity, generally, are emotionless robots, that are repressive, and like to be urinated on to gain sexual gratification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
You can create a GREAT game and GREAT story without of the profanity.
I usually hate these discussions because people who are against profanity in games switch from "profanity is bad" to "the profanity is not realistic in this game". Profanity is not bad, ever, unrealistic/unrepresentive/illthought dialogue is bad.

You can't create a great gritty game without profanity if the setting implies that there would be. In TLJ Zack and Flipper, and a lot of other characters, were played by voice actors that kept over acting and emphasizing words that wouldn't have been. Reading the dialogue, it's not the best, but it's not really a bad unrealistic use of profanity.

I can't say that Dreamfall has good dialogue because I'm still waiting to play it, but I think that complaining about profanity isn't about being unnecessary, it's about your sensibilities and cultural taboos that you must realise others don't share.
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Old 04-26-2006, 09:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj_
I can't say that Dreamfall has good dialogue because I'm still waiting to play it, but I think that complaining about profanity isn't about being unnecessary, it's about your sensibilities and cultural taboos that you must realise others don't share.
You forgot to add "so go **** yourself".
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:13 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Aj_
That's the biggest load of shit ever... they could just be Irish.

People who don't use profanity, generally, are emotionless robots, that are repressive, and like to be urinated on to gain sexual gratification.
Touche, my friend. Perhaps I should make my position a little clearer. If someone uses language like that around people who they know might be offended by it, it says something about their character. It's the difference between the character of a guy cursing around his friends, and someone who would start dropping all sorts of un-savory words upon meeting someone (In the games case, zoe) for the first time. The first example doesn't show a lot about the person's character, the second does. The profanity in Marcus' case is appropriate because we it fits with his character (and his less-than-honest actions).
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj_
...complaining about profanity isn't about being unnecessary, it's about your sensibilities and cultural taboos that you must realise others don't share.
Amen, AJ. I don't know who went through the English language and designated certain words as "dirty" and "off limits," and I will never understand why it happened. If you have been conditioned to feel uncomfortable whenever you hear or see "naughty" words, you are irrational. Celebrate free expression, not personal squeamishness.
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:49 AM   #12
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F**k yeah!!

Too true
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Old 04-26-2006, 10:53 AM   #13
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Old 04-26-2006, 11:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
* If you are gonna put in action sequences in an adventure, try to make them funner or better programmed at least more than a poor Sega Genesis game
Can't argue with that. The fighting is pretty bad (yet the stealth is adequate). Only response I have is that you can get around most of the combat. The game doesn't force you to fight. For instance in Chapter 4:

Spoiler:
When you have to get April to climb up the scaffolding, instead of fighting the guard you can sneak up behind him and press one button for an instant kill; I think she chokes him or something. And in the Border House with Zoe, you can turn the pizza on so that the guy gets distracted while you sneak by.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
* Maybe it's just me, but everyone is ranting and raving about the story. I am on Chapter 5 and with all the switching around and bouncing between characters, my attention is really starting to lessen
I think you may be a little confused and less interested with the story because you haven't played the first game, and a lot of the characters and locations are unfamiliar to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
* Why is Zoe's character model so well done and looks like it has 1000's of polygons while most of the other characters look straight out of The Sims 1. What has Funcom been doing for SEVEN years?
I don't think they've really been working on the game for that long, have they? The first game didn't even come out until 1999/2000. We didn't hear anything about Dreamfall until like 2003.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with the graphics. Yes they are not as good on Xbox, but Dreamfall still has decent graphics. This is not Oblivion we are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
* This is a whole other topic but needs to be brought up here. Why all of a sudden, in the last little while has the overuse of profanity become "ok" or "cool" because it makes the story more "realistic"!? Seriously, here I am enjoying the game and then all of a sudden here comes Marcus and it's like the developers turn into pre-pubesecent teenagers that have just discovered swearing. Stupid and necessary.

Um, maybe because people use profanity in real life. :Shocked:

Seriously, Dreamfall does not use profanity for the sake of being cool or targeting the game to teenagers. They use it when it's appropriate. If you were Zoe and caught up in all that mess, would you not say "shit" every once in a while? Come on. Let's be real here.

Last edited by Legolas813; 04-26-2006 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:00 PM   #15
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My parents certainly don't like profanity in their entertainment. It's okay to shotgun someone in the chest, just as long as they don't cuss about it. I asked them about it and they said it's not the actually words but what they represent.

However, they don't mind "frak" in Battlestar Galactica and when I mentioned that it's a replacement for the unmentionable f-word they said it wasn't the same thing.

But "frak" is meant to represent the same thing, so I think dislike of profanity is largely conditioning against specific words in their case. Which I think is fraking silly.

Last edited by Squeekmore; 04-26-2006 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aj_
People who don't use profanity, generally, are emotionless robots, that are repressive, and like to be urinated on to gain sexual gratification.
Thank you very much (just kidding)
I might write some semi-profane words in my posts - heck, damn, "svarte" (norwegian word for black. Don't know why it's become a swear word..) but I don't swear in "the real world". I don't know why, I'm just not that sort of person..
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:24 PM   #17
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Good post, aj. Profanity isn't all that bad. There's far worse than that. I mean, people who speak in metaphors oughta shampoo my friggin' crotch!
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeekmore
My parents certainly don't like profanity in their entertainment. It's okay to shotgun someone in the chest, just as long as they don't cuss about it. I asked them about it and they said it's not the actually words but what they represent.

However, they don't mind "frak" in Battlestar Galactica and when I mentioned that it's a replacement for the unmentionable f-word they said it wasn't the same thing.

But "frak" is meant to represent the same thing, so I think dislike of profanity is largely conditioning against specific words in their case. Which I think is fraking silly.
An interesting observation. Welcome to the forums, have a jolly fraking good time!
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:14 PM   #19
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Despite all the true things you guys have said, I find profanity unnecessary in games and in general.

Some people are offended by different things and profanity offends me. If you are one of those ever-growing people that says "NOTHING OFFENDS ME", you are in denial.

Those from Europe, I could call you Euro trash and you might get offended and you might not be. Yet at the same time, if someone called me a yankee or a cracker, I could care less.

Vulgarity is vulgarity. Wanna know what the dictionary defines it as:

lacking in cultivation, perception, or taste :b : morally crude, undeveloped, or unregenerate : c : ostentatious or excessive in expenditure or display :

Could it be any better said?

Whether vulgarity offends you are not, it doesn't make the game any better. Metal Gear for the NES could have easily included many F-words, etc but it didn't need to. Same with the Tex Murphy adventures, they could have easily been loaded with profanity but it wouldn't have made it any better.
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Old 04-26-2006, 01:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dborgill
Despite all the true things you guys have said, I find profanity unnecessary in games and in general.

Some people are offended by different things and profanity offends me. If you are one of those ever-growing people that says "NOTHING OFFENDS ME", you are in denial.

Those from Europe, I could call you Euro trash and you might get offended and you might not be. Yet at the same time, if someone called me a yankee or a cracker, I could care less.

Vulgarity is vulgarity. Wanna know what the dictionary defines it as:

lacking in cultivation, perception, or taste :b : morally crude, undeveloped, or unregenerate : c : ostentatious or excessive in expenditure or display :

Could it be any better said?

Whether vulgarity offends you are not, it doesn't make the game any better. Metal Gear for the NES could have easily included many F-words, etc but it didn't need to. Same with the Tex Murphy adventures, they could have easily been loaded with profanity but it wouldn't have made it any better.
What were you expecting when you saw the M rating on the box? Usually when I see an R rating (movie), TV14 (on TV in the US) or an M (game), I would almost be shocked if there weren't any swearing.

M = mature story line whether you agree with how that is portrayed or not. It is your opinion that all swearing is vulgar but game makers also have the right to include it if they want and a rating has been put on the box. If it offends you, you may want to stay away from M rated games.
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