[DanAlt]

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER, I'M NOT KIDDDING!

If that, and the title isn't explicit enough, this post is ALL SPOILER. I'm not going to use the white box thinger, because if you don't want to know, don't read the post.

That said. I just finished Dreamfall and I have very mixed feelings. It's not that I doubt the game is a masterpiece. It is. The plot is throroughly engrossing. It just that I'm fairly unsatisfied by the ending.

TLJ wrapped up the story arc. It didn't necessarily put it all in a box, tie up all the threads, a la crappy TV sitcoms, but there was a sense of closure at the end.

Dreamfall, on the other hand, really only resolved the "Faith" issue. Everything else was patently left unresolved. Is this a prelude to a sequel? It certainly had the "Empire Strikes Back" feel about it. What is going on with the tower in Marcuria? What happens with Kian? If April is really dead (I TOLD you not to read this if you didn't want spoilers, dammit!) then how do you explain the TLJ epilogue? What's the deal with the fake Rizor at the end?
What happened to the white Driac Kin? What's the deal with the blonde Wati Corp executive? Or the twins?


I'm not entirely sure by what standards to judge the game. The puzzles are trivial, but that doesn't mean solving them wasn't enjoyable. They did keep you involved with the game, and left you with a sense that you had DONE something. And being able to pick dialogue trees again left you a sense of interest. But even if you looked at everything, explored everything, and did everything you could, I would guess that you still spent more time looking at cut scenes than you did actually controlling the character.

Is that good? Bad? I don't know. The cut scenes were amazing. The plot is amazing. But it feels like comparing apples to oranges to call this an "Adventure Game" in the sense of other adventure games.

It's an amazing game. I'll probably play through it again to take it all in, and I hope the sequel brings a bit more closure at the end.

And the combat system does, in fact, suck.

[Christian IV]

Yes there very definitely will be a sequel or a third game in the series, Ragnar just confirmed on his blog, he is very pleased that the adventure gamers are enjoying it. I am glad you enjoyed it, every game will have its strong points for all of us, and it is nice that there can be new kinds of games within the genres that we all know well. thanks for your post.

[Coop]

Brian Westhood is the Prophet! IMO of course.. i think the tower and the dreamer are connected somehow. and i think this ending was worst than the halo 2 ending..

[Once A Villain]

That ending was cool, but it totally blew at the same time. How is that possible?

[Hoboknight]

i screamed at my screen when the credits rolled...

it was like the ending on Metal Gear Solid 2...More freaking questions than answers!!!!


aaaah!

[Lunarhound]

I actually thought this ending was a bit better, as far as actual quality goes, than the one in The Longest Journey. TLJ wrapped things up better, but the writing and the pacing toward the close felt rushed, and a bit garbled in places. Still very good, but slightly rough around the edges. I think Tornquist's storytelling skills have improved in the years since TLJ and it shows in Dreamfall's ending. I was unsatisfied and I'm ready to tear my hair out, knowing that I'll probably have to wait years to play the next entry in the series, but looked at objectively, I think Dreamfall's ending was brilliant.

I didn't mind the combat and the sneaking. I also don't think the combat's as bad as people are making it out to be. Its biggest fault is just that the controls are a little clunky. It'd be awful if it were a major focus of the game, but it's not, so I don't mind it. I actually enjoyed some of the fighting sequences. I also liked that, in a few cases where they could have simply put in automatic death for making the wrong decision, the developers instead chose to allow the player to fight even though it was impossible to win.

One thing that I think (or at least hope) will make the next game worth waiting for is that Tornquist obviously cares very much what his fans think, and seems to be taking both their opinions and all of the reviews to heart. In other words, maybe the next time, we'll get more gameplay to go with all of the amazing storytelling. I think the Adventure Gamers review put it best:

Originally Posted by Jack Allin

I personally applaud the design decision favouring naturally-emerging obstructions. But they need to actually emerge, and in Dreamfall they appear far too infrequently. In fact, several times I encountered scenarios that were tailor made for increased player participation, but glossed over by the developers, presumably as an undesirable plot hindrance.

That hits the nail on the head, and since Ragnar's obviously aware and appreciative of the review, maybe we'll see some improvement in these areas the next time around.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Having just recently finished the game, I've come to some possiblities...

1. The one who attacked the White Dragon is either Brian, or possibly the Dark Person who didn't recognize April. I'm not sure which, I mean when the White Dragon first told us about somebody trying to get her, I assumed it was that Dark Person because his reaction was somewhat suspicious to me. Then again, it could be Brian & his connection to the Undreaming (whatever that is).

2. I think that's Reza's body, but not necessarily his mind. The way the fat man talked about him, makes me suspect that he wasn't so much killed as wiped. The question is, who's in his body? Fat man? For some reason I doubt it, but from what we know the only other option is the Undreaming, whatever that is.

3. The thing that really bother's me is Zoe's mom. Frankly, I don't know what is up with her. I mean, she put her own daughter into a coma for life, and despite what she said it doesn't seem to me as if she isn't still working for the Corporation. Yeah, she wasn't working for Peats, but she made the claim the Dreamer wouldn't go ahead & it went ahead anyway.

4. And how does Kian know April? Is he possibly the son of April's compatriot, taken away at birth? Or maybe he's seen her in dreams? So many unanswered questions in Kian's department.

SWB

[cdturner5984]

I actually thought it hinted at quite a lot, though of course until the third game comes out this is just wild speculation.

My wild guess is that The Undreaming is what happens when the Dreamcore is released at that big event. The guy at WATIcorp talked about how the Dreamer screws up people, and it got me thinking that if everyone dreamed at once on obviously damaging hardware, that it would completely rip apart the dreamworld that was created - The White Draic Kin talked about how Dreams were the fabric that held things together. Since the "Dream Stockpile" that Apirl saw was in the bottom of the tower, it makes sense that the tower would have the swirly evilness at the end of the game. Of course, it goes to say that the Prophet is manipulating both sides, but to what end isn't clear to me.

Also, April's not dead, but she's in a bad way, to be sure. The White Draic Kin is killed or kidnapped or possessed by Westhouse or some other Random Villainous Character, who told Faith that April was "saved". A much less sketchy link is that the end of the Longest Journey obviously has a very not dead April - The Lady Alvane. Kian's last name is Alvane, so clearly she's either not dead or Kian will do something to bring her back to life.

Excellent game, but the multiple cliffhangers are frustrating.

[Hoboknight]

yea very

[johnsss]

Hi everyone.
First of all, I would like to warn you that if you havent played the game or havent finished it yet (which I strongly recommend you to do so) do not read this post. This post is for those who have already finished the game.

---- SPOILER ALERT ----
I finished the game yesterday and there were quite a few questions in my mind afterwards. Unlike TLJ (1) this one finished in a somewhat unclear state.

Now here are my questions:

1- Did April really die? If so, then who was the storyteller (the old woman at the begining and the end of TLJ) in TLJ?

2- Did the white of the Draic Kins die too? If so by whom? By Brian Westhouse? And why?

3- Why were she and April sisters? (The white kin doesn't respond to that clearly)

4- What was the deal with the epilogue about Brian Westhouse anyway? Where was he in the begining and who where those monks? And what was that black thing in the island?

5- What happened to Zoe? Did she actually die? And how was that Doctor her mother? Did she create her too? And if so, then what about her (supposedly step) dad and mom?

6- Why did Zoe say in the end that the person standing there is not Reza? then who was he? A clone or sth?

7- What was the deal with the twins? Who were they working for if not the fat monster who owned the WATIcorp?

I have some other questions as well, but first, I would like to know your opinion about the questions I raised.

Johnsss

[Snatcher42]

AHHHHHHH!

I just finished the game.

AHHHHHHH!

Ok... catch breath. Calm down.





Who am I kidding?

AHHHHHHHH!


Ok, ok... should read the rest of this thread now I guess. But sleep first. Yes, sleep is good.

I just have to say, my two biggest questions are:

1. Who or what was "the prophet"?

2. WHAT HAPPENED TO APRIL?!? She can't be dead. April I loooveee you!!!

Anyway, I'm glad to read the latest entry on Ragnar's blog (http://ragnartornquist.com/?p=154#more-154). I trust him to finish this story. In that light, I think the ending of Dreamfall is amazing.

But April, please don't die!


EDIT (after reading other points in this thread):

Brian Westhood is the Prophet!

Ahh, you're probably right... well, it's that "undreaming" thing inside him that's really the big bad (and killed the white dragon). He's probably not even aware of it at all times (a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of relationship).

The Lady Alvane. Kian's last name is Alvane

Ahhh, good catch! I dunno if it will be Kian who resurrects her, but somehow she survives and probably marries him.

To stop the undreaming in the next game, April will also probably have to destroy the balance and reunify the two worlds, as prophesized in TLJ1.

A question is, what role if any will Zoe play?

After watching the bit after the credits... I wonder if Cortez knew about the undreaming?

And yes, the Reza bit at the end was really... umm... hmm?

[wezyap]

just wondered if some one could explain the sequens that are played after the credit text is finnished,

Spoiler:

when westhouse falls in the snow and that guy from "the longest journey" helps him up, it is 5 years since I played that game, so I dont remember exactly who that guy was

also:

Spoiler:

who killed the white dragon, was it westhouse?

anyway, It was a great game, can't wait for the next longest journey game, but I probably have to wait another 6 years

[cesarbittar]

April doesn't die.

She's the old lady at the end of the original Longest Journey, remember? Lady Alvane, same last name as Kyan Alvane. My guess is that April and Kyan marry.

Or maybe not marry. But she takes on his name because they get really close in a way or another.

[EvilMulder]

Am I correct in assuming that the scenes with Brian Westhouse take place in the following order?

A) Brian meets Cortez.
B) Brian travels to Tibet in search of a particular monastery, the reason for which might have been given in TLJ but which I can't remember (Please remind me if you do).
C) Brian is close to freezing but is saved by Cortez.
D) Brian is brought by Cortez to a nearby monastery (The one that he was trying to reach in the first place, as I don't think all the monasteries in tibet know how to shift someone).
E) The monestary helps Brian shift. Brian is somehow attacked by the undreaming. I assume that he somehow fused with it.
F) Right here there is a gap in time of a couple hunderds of years.
G) The scenes from TLJ take place. We see Brian as a decent but disillusioned man.
H) After he escapes the war Brian wanders around for a couple of years.
I) While in the city of the Dark Ones, Brian attacks the white dragon. Since the white dragon is obviously one of the good guys, I would argue that either Brian is all bad (which I doubt from TLJ), or he might have been under control of the undreaming.

Now I'd like to make two points.

1) I have a feeling that fusing with the undreaming made Brian immortal. It's not so far fetched if you consider that April remarked him as looking younger when she saw him again after +- 8 years. This would explain neatly the 300 year gap. He explained that himself as having been 'lost outside time', but he never gave more details than that.

2) How the hell could Brian have been attacked by the undreaming? If my timeline above is correct then Brian was in the dreamland around 1900. The undreaming doesn't get unchained until 300 years after that! Unless you argue that once the undreaming happens, it isn't bound by time anymore and can strike (at least in the dreamland) anytime it wishes, but then April should have been attacked as well. After all, if it can attack someone 300 years before it is released it should very well be able to attack someone a couple of months before it is released. Which makes me think that my timeline isn't correct after all. But does anyone have any better ideas?

[badmojo]

(my post was moved here so if it looks out of place that's why...)

I haven't seen a topic about this yet.. so I'll go ahead and start it. It took me about 8 hours to beat the entire game.. pretty short, but very worth it. What a brilliant story.

I just wanted to see what everyone's take was on the ending of Dreamfall. April died, Zoe died, Reza died, and if you wait through the credits, another sequence appears.. showing that Kian is still alive, walking through some snowy mountains.

What is this saying? What does it mean? Does this mean we'll take the role of Kian in TLJ3? Do you think Zoe actually died, or did she just get stuck in a parallel world like the little girl did? Remember.. they were "sisters". They were alike as dreamers. So that tells me that there's a chance we might see Zoe again. Perhaps her body is dead in Stark, but her soul is still alive in Arcadia.

What do you guys think?

[Legolas813]

^ That wasn't Kian. That was Brian Westhouse. And the other guy was Cortez (Manny Chavez) from the first game.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[lostwolfe]

ok. *i* just finished it.

i've been playing more-or-less solidly since thursday.

seeing what happened with faith made me *very* sad.

i'm not...happy...with the ending. it reminds me a lot of what happened with "matrix:reloaded" and "matrix:revolutions." so many unanswered questions.

by and large, my experience with the game was positive. i'm glad they bought back some of the major characters - i was *particularly* glad that crow came back. i enjoyed him very much during the course of "longest journey" and he was a pleasure to have back this time around, too.

i'm processing what i've just seen [i literally finished the game and came over here - it's about three in the morning.] - but this is what i think, at least on one point -->

either brian westhouse is all bad, or he's being used. my feeling is - based on what we see at the very end [after the credits] i think brian's being used. though, in a very subtle way. i think a lot of what's going on has to do more with cortez than brian. i'd *like* to think that if brian is bad, then it is beyond his control. he sort of alludes to a little of this in his speech at the beginning. but it's interesting that the game sort of begins and ends with him.

as everyone else has noted, though, there are going to be *lots* of unresolved answers until the third game - i very much hope that he gets to make a third game, beause he's piqued my curiosity - and he's aroused my emotions. [watching that sequence with the datacube in the laboratory made me *very* sad] and i hope he gets to tie up all these loose endings.

postcript:and while i'm here and since this is the spoiler thread, is it just me, or did anyone else notice how much wonkers the watilla is *very* reminiscent of teddy from "ai"?

[NemelChelovek]

is it just me, or did anyone else notice how much wonkers the watilla is *very* reminiscent of teddy from "ai"?

Makes sense, seeing as they were both voiced by Jack Angel.

[CoyoteAG]

Originally Posted by Legolas813

^ That wasn't Kian. That was Brian Westhouse. And the other guy was Cortez (Manny Chavez) from the first game.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct and it stated that the year of that scene was 1933. The year that Brian said he left Stark and went into the place where there is no time (hence the lack of aging).

I just finished the game. I started it yesterday. It probably took me about 12 or 13 hours to complete. I'm a little disappointed in that as TLJ took me much, much longer. I really enjoyed the game. I was very immersed in the world and I really like Zoe. And the fighting and stealth stuff didn't bother me in the least. Actually I kind of liked the fighting a little bit. I don't mind action sequences as long as they make sense in the story and aren't really hard.

Anyway, my only real complaint about it was the lack of things to do. I've seen that complaint from a lot of others too. There was very little actual thinking. A lot of the game was just running to another location to trigger another cut scene.

I really am enjoying all your thoughts about the events of the game. I thought there might be another cut scene back to Kian but it didn't happen. I can't wait for TLJ 3! I think I'll just put 1 & 2 on my shelf and play them both again right before 3 comes out.

[Legolas813]

So did anyone get the easter egg at the end? I know what you have to do in the game to get it, I just didn't do it.