[Toefur]

There seems to be a lot of dislike for these things out there, and other than often bumping into obscure puzzles where you can't think of the correct word to use (I'm thinking "hold breath" in SQ2, and one in Conquests of Camelot) I personally can't find anything to fault text parsers.

As a matter of fact, I quite enjoy text parsers and I really believe that as a young computer game player back in the 80's that text parsers (and reading dialogue) actually helped with my English skills.

Lets hear some appreciation for text parsers!

Favourite game? Hm, Conquests of Camelot or Space Quest 3.

Additionally, do you think text parsers could ever be a feasible form of control again? I mean yes, we have mice, but should all games necessarily depend on mouse or other keyboard commands? Maybe not popular, but I think it would be fun to see a 3D game with a text parser...

[Jeysie]

Mmm.

I wouldn't mind seeing a return to the systems that are "hybrids" between text parser and point 'n click. Namely, either:

1. The Monkey Island 1 era SCUMM system, with a list of all the verbs the game recognizes, that can be used on every object and inventory item.

or

2. The Gabriel Knight 3/The Space Bar/The Sims method, where each object has a list of all recognized actions attached to it.

IMHO, each method captures the benefits of text parsers (the flexibility of actions) without having the downsides of text parsers (guess the verb/noun, slowness).

But for the most part I wouldn't want to see a return of text parsers themselves, I must admit. About the only place I could see a text parser being useful as opposed to the two methods above being better is if it is possible to use the parser for dialogue; i.e. you can talk to NPCs free-form using it.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[samIamsad]

I still play text games, but by now they're so far detached from the rest of what's going on in the gaming world, that I probably wouldn't even call them games anymore. At least not in the usual sense.* Then again, that's also the case with a lot of the point&clickers these days. So, text parsers. I don't really know. If there's a reason to implement a (good!) one, why not?


*I don't think these absolutely have to have no commercial viability whatsoever (interactive fiction.... *blink*, *blink*), but this kind of thing certainly doesn't appeal to the typical gamer these days anymore.

[jp-30]

I don't think I've used a Text parser since the infocom heyday (they had the best I'd ever had the pleasure to experience), but a year or so ago I did find this website (which I'm sure many of you have seen) which has a rather brillliant parser...

http://www.subservientchicken.com/

[avatar_58]

Sierra's text parser games kicked all sorts of anus.

My fav text based games would be Police Quest 2 and Space Quest 3. Could text parsers work today? Interesting question....I liked how LSL7 tried it, and I could even imagine them removing the cursors entirely....so I say 'yes if done right'.

Although I'm trying to imagine a full blown real-time 3D adventure game using the keyboard with parser commands. Thats trippy...

[jp-30]

Given the popularity of chat cliets like MSN & AOL and telephone SMS/TXT messaging, maybe there is a place for a well implemented text parser in videogames in this day and age?

But would it be anything more than a gimmick, and an input method that would be clumsier than standart mouse / key / joypad interaction?

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by jp-30

But would it be anything more than a gimmick, and an input method that would be clumsier than standart mouse / key / joypad interaction?

Not really, some games have managed to prove to me that mouse control can be just as clumsy if you don't know how to design it properly.

[samIamsad]

I loved typing in all kinds of crazy stuff into the Sydney computer in GK3 (and getting a proper response!), so I think there's at least definitely a place for text input in games.

[jp-30]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

Not really, some games have managed to prove to me that mouse control can be just as clumsy if you don't know how to design it properly.

Such as...?

[RLacey]

Text parsers are fine only if they're cleverly developed. Nothing rips me out of being immersed in a game like a parser that fails to understand what I'm trying to do.

And, as the majority of text parsers don't work that well, I'll pass for now.

[cardician]

See, I agree with those here saying that if implemented correctly, a text parser could still work today. It allows for a user to try more options than the standard mouse/icon system.

I had an idea about three years back to implement a hybrid system. I was taking a game design course in college and we had to create an entire game design document, so in essence an entire game (just didn't have to code it). My idea was for an adventure game that utilized the mouse, but then brought in text parsing for certain situations where it would allow more freedom and allow the user to try more stuff. The teacher, who was in the game field and worked for a local game company, ripped it apart though. I was kind of devastated that my idea was so trashed and figured that it must just really not be a good one.

Nice to see that others here think similarly to me though. Perhaps the teacher just did not like adventure games.

[Huz]

Originally Posted by jp-30

Given the popularity of chat cliets like MSN & AOL and telephone SMS/TXT messaging, maybe there is a place for a well implemented text parser in videogames in this day and age?

If you have AOL Instant Messenger, send a message to InfocomBot and see what happens. (Haven't tried this in ages, so don't be disappointed if the answer is "nothing"!)

It would be great if this became popular and introduced a new generation to text adventures. Like Toefur, I credit text adventures with improving my English skills (and English is my native language!) - I think I was way ahead in spelling and grammar and it wasn't entirely down to reading lots of books.

I think I probably scared my teachers with my knowledge of archaic words, thanks to the abundance of medieval-set text adventures for my dad's Sinclair QL!

Also - if you're interested in novel uses of text parsers - have a look at Façade. It's five minutes of fun.

[Dasilva]

If its a clever parser, yes. If its dumb, no.

[jp-30]

I wonder if there's a text-only adveture game market for mobile phone users? Apart from the annoyance of scrolling through screeds of text, I could easily see things like ZORK working even on the most basic TXT/SMS capable telephones.

Would only need a quick parser update to understand standard text shorthand STND B4 TREE and GIVE KEY 2 TROLL.

[Bastich]

Text adventures are still being made and even sold, so it would be innaccurate to say text input needs to be brought back. Better to say, made more popular...

As for text input itself, it is far superior to point and click in every way from an interactivity perspective IMO. While a bad parser (like Sierra's) can be frustrating, more often than not it is the greatly increased difficulty inherent in the freedom of text input and in the requirement that the player actually know EXACTLY what it is he needs to do that is the real source of frustration. Text adventures don't hold your hand the way P&C does. I highly doubt many people would truly be interested in it because of that.

[[toj.cc]Phantom]

I think they make the game far more challening and make you think a whole lot more...so I like them...but I also like point-and-click...*head explodes*

[Jeysie]

Originally Posted by Bastich

While a bad parser (like Sierra's) can be frustrating, more often than not it is the greatly increased difficulty inherent in the freedom of text input and in the requirement that the player actually know EXACTLY what it is he needs to do that is the real source of frustration.

Actually, I find I tend to have the problem where I always know exactly what I need to do... the frustration is in getting the infernal text parser to let me do it. Every time I play a text parser adventure I feel like I have to fight the interface; instead of spending time figuring out the solutions to puzzles, I'm stuck figuring out how to tell the game my solutions.

Which is why I like the hybrid systems I mentioned... all the fun with no fuss.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[EvoG]

Interestingly, I was just discussing this very thing not a week ago. The one strong incentive to introducing a parser is what I'd like to coin as Dialog Exploration. I'm old school, growing up with Scott Adams adventures on my Vic20, the Infocom games and on to the rudimentary parsers in the first six Ultimas. Even then (being that I was fairly young) I recognized the issues with a mouse-keyword system when Origin decided to implement it in Ultima 7. Keyword systems remove the need for the player to participate in a more meaningful way, paying attention to what is being talked about, and exploring what exactly the NPC might know.

Keyword systems hinder detective type narrative for example, reducing the play to talking to an NPC, discovering X hidden item, going back to said NPC and having another 'keyword' to now ask them about pertaining to said found item. Of course with a parser, you can not only talk about what the NPC said, you can talk about what wasn't said, and hence the exploration of the dialog. Sure this requires a slightly more involved NPC development, it does make dialog more interesting (of course IMHO).

Either way, I was directed to an interesting site about interactive fiction, and found myself enjoying this more than I thought I would. I wouldn't expect a grand resurgence of text adventures, but I'm all for reintegrating parsers into modern, dialog heavy games. Anyway, Galatea is an ask/tell parser system, but, and this was what was new to me, the system tracks the NPC's feelings both overall and specifically towards you. The idea being that you could piss off the NPC to the point of them not wanting to continue talking with you, or at the very least disliking you, making the conversation more difficult. This was the one thing I found thrilling, making dialog not only an exploration, but also a contextual balance of the relationship with the NPC.

Good stuff, so go check it out.


Cheer

[Gordon Bennett]

Yes, they're nice. I started gaming with only a keyboard and joystick available. Even after more years spent with a mouse than without, it's still not quite as fluent for me.

I find that text parsers require more concentration and less distraction around me to use properly. Best when alone in a quiet room. It's not always possible to achieve that, and when I try it becomes a chore to muddle with it, but when I can manage it, and it goes well, I get completely drawn in and forget entirely about the whole physical aspect of playing the game.

The closest that I ever came to finding that sort of connection with a graphical/mouse controlled game was playing Wonderland, with the amazing Magnetic Windows interface. Once I realized how it worked, it absolutely astounded me with how comprehensive and well-thought out it was.

A pity the screen was far too small to fit it all in properly, and the hardware was a bit slow for it. On a modern machine (I used an Atari ST originally) it could be marvellous for both text and graphics users.

[AFGNCAAP]

What Bastich said.

I urge people to play some newer IFs if they haven't already. The parsers got much more responsive over the years. Of course, how frustrating they are in the end also depends on a particular game. On the other hand, I can't believe non-text games (especially adventures) never frustrated you guys with not understanding what you attempt to do.

Furthermore (what can't be in all honesty said about eg. Sierra games), among them there is quite a lot of games that actually employ the parser as an integral part of the design, and really couldn't be remade with any other interface. Galatea, Spider and Web or Photopia spring to mind.