[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

If BS4 is going to use the exact same control as the first 2 then im gonna be even more dissapointed, Point'n'click isnt out dated but the system in BS 1 and 2 is.
It may have aged well but its still old, Im still hoping to see something new in BS4, or maybe even see something like the intaractive cutscenes that were in BS3

I just replayed BS 1 and 2 and loved them. I've not played BS 3 yet but I found 1 and 2 to be tons of fun and didn't mind the controls at all.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

I just replayed BS 1 and 2 and loved them. I've not played BS 3 yet but I found 1 and 2 to be tons of fun and didn't mind the controls at all.

The controls were fine for a game of that period, but I think I'd be a little hard to use the exact same control scheme for a fully 3D game such as BS4 (presumably?). The control scheme for BS3 was a little annoying at times, especially in certain action sequences. I can remember one action sequence in where you'll have to run away from a villain, which I had to retry like 20 times before finally succeeding. Personally I think they're going to use something similair to Dreamfall.

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by Melanie68

I just replayed BS 1 and 2 and loved them. I've not played BS 3 yet but I found 1 and 2 to be tons of fun and didn't mind the controls at all.

I never said there was anything wrong with them, just said they were old.


I'd have to say my main gripe with the way adventures are now adays is theres not as many options anymore, We started out with 9 and now were only left with 1(2 including look, 3 including using you inventory) ....
And if revolution are going to make BS4 with the exact same control system as BS 1 and 2 then that means its going to have only the 1(or 3) option(s)

I cant quite remember but didnt BS 3 have 4 options?

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Though you make it sound as if they did something completely different with BS3.

Well, you can't get much more different from P&C than direct control.

I'm still not convinced that the long term and experienced game designer in him isn't shedding some tears over this at this very moment. It most likely is what it seems to be - a business decision. That's okay, I guess. But still sad.

But why do you assume the move to 3D/direct control for BS3 wasn't equally or even moreso a business decision? Do you think they'd have gotten a multi-platform publisher for a P&C? Maybe that gamble was primarily an attempt to break into the mainstream instead of being creatively liberating. As you said, the game itself wasn't particularly different than the previous ones, suggesting they really didn't know what to do with the freedom and technology once they had it.

(Note: I have no idea if this is so. Just pointing out there's no particular reason to believe the opposite.)

[Gonchi]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

"Press B now!" Is hardly action packed, but it still added a little variaty to the gameplay

It was more like a mishmash of key slapping in rapid succession without a split second of hesitation unless you wanted to replay the scene over and over. It was a variety that was personally unwanted and along with several other factors only added to hindering my enjoyment of the game, to the point that BS3 became a chore more than an enjoyment to play.

I've always felt that BS3 play style was better suited for an In Cold Blood sequel, but of course, that franchise wasn't half as popular as Broken Sword.

Charles Cecil seemed to be genuinely proud of The Sleeping Dragon, it's a shame that I failed to enjoy playing it as much as he seems to have enjoyed making it for us.

In any case, we should wait for the game to be further into development before we lose interest in it or celebrate (depending on ones particular preference).

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Jackal

But why do you assume the move to 3D/direct control for BS3 wasn't equally or even moreso a business decision? Do you think they'd have gotten a multi-platform publisher for a P&C? Maybe that gamble was primarily an attempt to break into the mainstream instead of being creatively liberating.

Everything is a business decision (right from the point when you decide to start a company and make commercial games). So, yeah, I'd assume that even Shadow Of The Templars and The Smoking Mirror - both games that went on to sell something like a million copies each - were made to make some money. The thing is - nobody knows for sure. Cecil's statements could've been some kind of PR stunt, or something else entirely. Still, there's doubt. But perhaps we should leave it at that for now. And wait for Broken Sword 4.

Originally Posted by Jackal

As you said, the game itself wasn't particularly different than the previous ones, suggesting they really didn't know what to do with the freedom and technology once they had it.

Yes, that's exactly the thing. Broken Sword 3 remained to be a Broken Sword game first and foremost, while still offering the player a completely different and fresh look&feel while playing. Issues and some failed opportunities aside, which both were to be expected given the fact that it was Revolutions first try in years to do something a bit different, it showed promise. Err, that's it. Honest.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Same here. Especially since Revolution was one of the very, very, very, very, very,... very few software houses at least *trying*. Alas, I don't care. It's the experience that counts. Ultimately. Still curious about how Dreamfall is going to feel...

Yeah, I feel as you do. If they're going back to 2D, it would be a waste of a beautiful real time 3D engine that could have had tons of potential for next gen adventure games. I loved BS3's subtle radiosity lighting and vibrantly coloured world. The controls sucked, yes, and the gameplay predictable, easy, and not innovative, but I don't think that had anything to do with the game's engine, it had more to do with not thinking outside the box.

[CrimsonBlue]

Well, nobody has said they're going back to 2D, only that it'll be a point'n'clickie. And last time I checked, it's still possible to innovate with point'n'click interfaces. We saw that with GK3. What about a Splinter Cell type engine that worked so well with the PC? Wouldn't take much to turn that into a point'n'click engine. Or even Neverwinter Nights? Zoom in, Zoom out, 360 degree camera. Point'n'click movements. It's been done in RPGs for ages, why not something like that in an adventure game?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Crimson, I did specifically say...

Originally Posted by Trep

If they're going back to 2D

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

Wouldn't take much to turn that into a point'n'click engine. Or even Neverwinter Nights? Zoom in, Zoom out, 360 degree camera. Point'n'click movements. It's been done in RPGs for ages, why not something like that in an adventure game?

Gawd, me and a few other people here share that fantasy! An adventure game using the Aurora engine. Sigh, we can always dream[fall].

[Kurufinwe]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Yeah, I feel as you do. If they're going back to 2D, it would be a waste of a beautiful real time 3D engine that could have had tons of potential for next gen adventure games. I loved BS3's subtle radiosity lighting and vibrantly coloured world. The controls sucked, yes, and the gameplay predictable, easy, and not innovative, but I don't think that had anything to do with the game's engine, it had more to do with not thinking outside the box.

I really agree with you on the colours and lighting being really nice in BS3. But did they say they were going back to 2D? I can't remember. But I can't see why they couldn't use a point'n'click interface with a 3D world --- GK3 did it, and it worked for me much better than the controls in BS3.

EDIT: Two replies while I was typing mine. This thread is going too fast for my brain and fingers.

[Dasilva]

Heres another good example of the power of the engine:

The Witcher (PC)

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Kurufinwe

But I can't see why they couldn't use a point'n'click interface with a 3D world --- GK3 did it, and it worked for me much better than the controls in BS3.

Well, as Crimson stated, RPGs have been doing it for years. One of the best examples is Neverwinter Nights.

For those of you unfamiliar with NWN, watch this demo trailer to see how point-&-clicking in a real time 3D world could work this way. You can rotate the world around your character using keyboard keys, all the while moving the pointer around with your mouse.

Oh, and I'm not saying that this way is better than traditional 2D point-&-click. What I'm saying is that it's another beautiful way to experience an adventure game. More diversity, more different ways.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Well, as Crimson stated, RPGs have been doing it for years. One of the best examples is Neverwinter Nights.

For those of you unfamiliar with NWN, watch this demo trailer to see how point-&-clicking in a real time 3D world could work this way. You can rotate the world around your character using keyboard keys, all the while moving the pointer around with your mouse.

Now all we need is a developer to take charge and actually put something in action. But I still dont see a good future for adventure games. Unless a miracle happends.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

But I still dont see a good future for adventure games.

One of the main problems I've pointed out in the past is that adventure games rarely actively advance themselves in terms of concepts and technology. Once in a while you have something like Indigo Prophecy break the mold, causing controversy within the small tight adventure gaming community but also delighting the larger gaming community (ironically consisting of many 'jaded' gamers of various genres) to jump up in excitement because it's nothing like they've experienced before. We need more of that.....if only the money and the balls to go out on a limb were there.

I think to some extent that's what Charles Cecil tried very hard to do with Broken Sword 3.

[Jolaes]

I hope an other programmer will make the interface for Broken Sword 4. There are no words for the clumsiness of BS3. I could not get the hang of it after playing for hours so I just raced thru the game using foreign savegames.

And don't tell me I am THAT dumb; I am also playing FPS games online and am pretty much a "death incarnate" leader sniper on every CoD2 server I log in
I like to be in total control of my actions. For the same reason I dumped the Resident Evil and Silent Hill series which can megafrustrate anyone who likes to interact with a 3D world his/her own way. (FPS, fixed TPS or freely adjustable view RULEZ!)

*Someone PLS make a new fps where we can shoot up programmers like the one in question.*
*When is Eversummer Days going to come out ???*
*I am also waiting for Alone in the Dark 5 1/2: Together in the Light (Again)*

[KriD]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

The PC version is probably going to be driven by Keyboard and Mouse Ala Kotor, and the console versions will probably use the focus field a lot more. Im not sure I tend not to read too much about Dreamfall so I dont spoil it.

The PC-version of Dreamfall is mouse only, I think.

[Dale Baldwin]

Originally Posted by KriD

The PC-version of Dreamfall is mouse only, I think.

I'd doubt that very much.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Isn't it going to be customizable controls?

[Kurufinwe]

Originally Posted by Dale Baldwin

I'd doubt that very much.

I wouldn't.
http://ragnartornquist.com/?p=15

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Hey! I better include this quote from Mr. Tornquist as well to prevent misunderstanding.

Originally Posted by RagnarTornquist.com

Absolutely. That’s been a key goal from the very beginning, and lead designer Jarl Schjerverud has pulled it off beautifully. There will be keyboard shortcuts as well , but even if you’re keyboard-phobic - or one-handed - you’ll be good.