[Jackal]

People continue to live in denial about BASS2. And Revolution, for that matter. Once more for the record, Revolution severely downsized after word of BASS2 leaked, which means they aren't producing games anymore. They're only responsible for concept, writing, and design stuff. That applies to BS4, too. Revolution isn't "making" BS4. The actual game production is all being handled by various third party contributors. Graphics, sound, controls, game engine, etc. All that stuff they used to do in-house and control, now they don't.

As for BASS2, I'm sure it exists in concept (maybe on paper, maybe only in someone's head), but if anyone's going to actually make it, it can't be Revolution. Or Revolution in its current state, anyway. Anyone that thinks the silence is a sign of "Revolution" busy producing the game in secrecy is in for a rude non-awakening.

Originally Posted by Karmillo

I hope this doesnt happen with Simon 4...

If you mean you hope it isn't P&C, it's already been stated that that's the plan for Simon.

I'm personally a little disappointed BS4 won't be direct control, as much because I'd like some variety as anything. I have no problem with it being P&C, though.

It's funny that people equate point & click with being outdated, though. It hasn't hurt the most popular (statistically ) PC genre there is. (That would be the RTS, not shooters.) So... yeah. It's not the control scheme, it's the game you build around it.

[Karmillo]

Anyway, about the assumption they didn't care to develop the control-system from BS3 is, well, an assumption. We could also speculate that they've been trying to make the system work, but in the end it didn't seem to give them the results they needed to get the game out in time. Spending 5 years on developing an engine for a game that's going to sell less copies than Katamari Damacy or ICO isn't a bright idea on the economics side of things. And we could also speculate that they didn't get the results they wanted, but continue to develop while doing BS4 in a more traditional style, so they can release it faster. The genre isn't viable for projects that takes 3-5 years without releasing anything meanwhile, and while I don't really wish for it, BASS2 could be the first game that uses a proper direct control system because they had enough time to develop and perfect it.

Yeah theres no proof that they just gave up, but theres no proof that they tried to develop it further and realised it couldnt be done either
And to say making it point and click would take less time in developing, there is nothing saying it wont be realtime 3D so it would take the same time either way, maybe even more since they dont have a 3D point'n'click engine already developed.

I dont remember saying point and click was out dated, theres plenty of games out there that are moving forward with it, like bone and ankh
Its just like Jackal said, it would be nice to have some variaty...and now ive just found out Simon 4 is going over to Point'n'click

[Dasilva]

KOTOR was Point 'n' Click & using Keyboard interface, and THAT IS the perfect control scheme for an adventure game, now we just need someone to do it.

[Karmillo]

No control is perfect

But that would be a really good combination, maybe something like a toggle to bring up a cursor when you want to investigate an area more closely

[Dasilva]

More Closely? In KOTOR you can switch to First PErson mode if you want to really look through the levels without distractions, I still think the perfect adventure game would have to use that interface, exept the person would be able to jump at freewill.

[Karmillo]

Yeah every game should have jumping, but jumping doesnt instantly = Platform
I just like exploring
like, if there was a town at a bottom of a cliff and you had to go down there, you could just jump instead of having to run all the way down

[samIamsad]

I mean, yes, I still hope they are doing this because they actually *want* and *love* to do it. And that this is not another case of

Making a game for the fans has trumped being awesome.

[Dasilva]

Well BS4 was made because of the fans, so I think they plan to please the fans, and not want to introduce new gamers in particular.

[samIamsad]

Of course. Just in case anyone still misses the point:

This isn't another direct controls vs whatever debate. That's superfluous crap. Without trying to come off as some sort of drama queen - this could go far deeper than that (like, developers designing a game in a way they probably never wanted to design another game again). And thus essentially making a game they never really wanted to make. It doesn't matter in the slightest if you like a particular game or design element or whatever, every serious (adventure) gamer's alarm bells should start ringing right now.

[eriq]

Woo! The first two Broken Sword games are classic. The third was OK.

Point'n'Click fourth? Sounds good to me.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Without trying to come off as some sort of drama queen - this could go far deeper than that (like, developers designing a game in a way they probably never wanted to design another game again). And thus essentially making a game they never really wanted to make. It doesn't matter in the slightest if you like a particular game or design element or whatever, every serious (adventure) gamer's alarm bells should start ringing right now.

Not necessarily. Doesn't (for example) every comic actor want to make a "serious" movie? Didn't Michael Jordan want to play baseball? Sometimes doing things you're good at goes a lot farther than doing things you wish you could do.

Besides, I don't think anyone should put too much stock in what was said before BS3 came out. They were pitching their game with sensational rhetoric to promote the change in direction. I don't think that qualifies as seeing into anyone's inner soul.

[Martin Gantefoehr]

Without trying to come off as some sort of drama queen - this could go far deeper than that (like, developers designing a game in a way they probably never wanted to design another game again). And thus essentially making a game they never really wanted to make. It doesn't matter in the slightest if you like a particular game or design element or whatever, every serious (adventure) gamer's alarm bells should start ringing right now.

In that case we should probably rename the last 10 years into 'The Age of Non-Functioning Video Gamer Alarm Clocks', as 80% of the developers in this industry work on third-party licenses and sequels. I'm pretty sure that many, actually most of them would much rather want to work on an original game based on their own intellectual property. 'Making a game you never really wanted to make' is an industry reality for the majority of development houses. So, if there's any application for apocalyptic drama and alarm bells, then I'd rather see it there.

Revolution is a small and respected team who just return to a control scheme they know and have produced some very successful games with. They're abandoning a control scheme that hasn't seen much support in their target audience. I fail to see how this is anything other than understandable.

[Karmillo]

Reading this thread I cant help but think of this article

Originally Posted by Martin Gantefoehr

Revolution is a small and respected team who just return to a control scheme they know and have produced some very successful games with. They're abandoning a control scheme that hasn't seen much support in their target audience. I fail to see how this is anything other than understandable.

If BS4 is going to use the exact same control as the first 2 then im gonna be even more dissapointed, Point'n'click isnt out dated but the system in BS 1 and 2 is.
It may have aged well but its still old, Im still hoping to see something new in BS4, or maybe even see something like the intaractive cutscenes that were in BS3

[Dasilva]

Or something like Dreamfall.

[Karmillo]

Dreamfall is direct control though, isnt it?

[Dasilva]

The PC version is probably going to be driven by Keyboard and Mouse Ala Kotor, and the console versions will probably use the focus field a lot more. Im not sure I tend not to read too much about Dreamfall so I dont spoil it.

[Karmillo]

I didnt know there was going to be any mouse activity atall...does KOTR work like NWN?

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Not necessarily. Doesn't (for example) every comic actor want to make a "serious" movie? Didn't Michael Jordan want to play baseball? Sometimes doing things you're good at goes a lot farther than doing things you wish you could do.

I'll give it the benefit of doubt. Though you make it sound as if they did something completely different with BS3. And by the way: Jim Carrey's performance in "Man on the moon" was by far his best_ever. Period.

Originally Posted by Martin Gantefoehr

Revolution is a small and respected team who just return to a control scheme they know and have produced some very successful games with. They're abandoning a control scheme that hasn't seen much support in their target audience. I fail to see how this is anything other than understandable.

Well, that's true. Hence I said I can understand where Cecil's coming from. He has certainly learned a rather hard lesson from his previous experience (for whatever reason, nobody can *exactly* tell). I'm still not convinced that the long term and experienced game designer in him isn't shedding some tears over this at this very moment. It most likely is what it seems to be - a business decision. That's okay, I guess. But still sad.

[Gonchi]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

Im still hoping to see something new in BS4, or maybe even see something like the intaractive cutscenes that were in BS3

Interactive cut scenes, is that a new term for action sequences? A good deal of the complaints I've read with BS3 were related to them, so I seriously doubt Revolution will implement them, or at least not in the scale of BS3.

When they say Revolution will be moving back into that style of game, it's telling me to expect something very similar to the original games, or at least something leaning more towards their gameplay than that of BS3, although I suppose that until someone at Rev comes out and says "this is how our game will play" anything is possible.

Personally, I hope they'll stay pretty much away from anything related to BS3.

[Karmillo]

"Press B now!" Is hardly action packed, but it still added a little variaty to the gameplay