[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by The Seed

Couldn't really see what all the fuss was about myself.

Just curious to see if you've finished the game.

[Christian IV]

Atma looks wonderful indeed, sad that it was not done,
maybe someday??

I did not know that LJ had a small budget, in some ways i can
see that as one loooks at the final product....i suppose my
awe was inspired partly by what I felt might happen as I began
the game as I progressed through it, and finished it last night,
I saw ways that if did not come up to its promise.....

but all in all, the atmosphere was lovely and it is a real work
of art.....

now on to some of the other suggestions made here in this
thread, thanks to everyone for the great and thoughtful
responses.....much much appreciated!

[Dasilva]

Most of the time people are comparing really old adventure games to todays adventure games. I always played all adventure games when they were released, The Longest Journal was simply breathtaking and a bit of a revolution for me at the time.

[stuboy]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

The Longest Journal

Is that a Myst mini-game?

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by stuboy

Is that a Myst mini-game?

You know what I ment.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by DaSilva

The Longest Journal

Originally Posted by stuboy

Is that a Myst mini-game?

ROFL!

[The Seed]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

Just curious to see if you've finished the game.

I did finish the game, yes. Just to clarify though, I didn't dislike the game, I actually quite enjoyed it on the whole, but I've never been able to understand why people consider it to be one of the best ever.

But I suppose it's probably got something to do with the fact that I always judge AGs by quality of story and gameplay equally, and while I agree that the story is very engaging, I didn't think the gameplay was anything special.

[Rulzern]

1. MI2
2. Grim Fandango
3. TLJ
4. Gateway (NOT number 2)

MI2 because of the clever puzzles (except the spitting contest), good humor (although not as good as Grim) and wonderful characters
Grim Fandango because of the EXCELLENT story, character, dialogue, atmosphere etc.
TLJ because of the story and atmosphere
Gateway for the "realistic" world(s), clever puzzles, and feeling of freedom

All these are must-plays for everybody IMHO. :p

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

What most compromises my enjoyment of The Longest Journey is its comprehensive lifting of the entire premise from Michael Ende's The Neverending Story. All the concepts that those who have not read Ende's novel usually find mind-blowing in TLJ are straight from Ende, except they were handled with greater concision and maturity in his work.

TLJ's main original contribution to the storyline was the now obligatory sassy, irreverent young female lead in tight clothing, streetwise characters supposed to appeal to today's gamers, and lots of swearing. It was a good adventure game, but an unoriginal one.

This is not to insult the TLJ team. The effort and quality of the work they put into the game is obvious and richly to be admired: the graphics, the music, the voice acting were all well above par. It was simply a derivative plot that did not allow full expression to the writer's clearly formidable talent.

I have no doubt his writing will gain in individuality and finesse with each new title, I look forward to Dreamfall, and I wish the entire TLJ team all the best.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Rulzern

4. Gateway (NOT number 2)

Now you've got my attention...

Why NOT 2? I liked it more than the first one, myself.

Originally Posted by Dasilva

Most of the time people are comparing really old adventure games to todays adventure games. I always played all adventure games when they were released, The Longest Journal was simply breathtaking and a bit of a revolution for me at the time.

Back on topic; I think that at one point I stop caring about April, and I didn't like the ending (last puzzles included). I played it when it was released, but saw no revolution. Still a very good game, mind you.

Originally Posted by Simo

What most compromises my enjoyment of The Longest Journey is its comprehensive lifting of the entire premise from Michael Ende's The Neverending Story.

First I thought that it was bit of a stretch, but thinking about it, I'd say that you're quite right.

[Rulzern]

In number 2 you missed out on the adventure of going on a spaceship, and you missed out on the friendly environment of the bar (:p), and the very clever puzzles of the VR machine.

Besides, I hate puzzles that require me to do them in xx turns.

[Christian IV]

Thanks to all for the continuing insightful and intriguing comments and discussion, and thanks
Simo for your in depth thoughts...I agree with
most of what you say, and the Never Ending Story
was very much similar, indeed the chaos Order balance is a widely thought about theme,
including in many forms of research into Chaos Theory, social reform and other forums.....And
at the time of its release, LJ did set the
standard for many different aspects of the
adventure literature.....and by the way
I differ directly and completely with the
attempts of some journalists and reviewers
to say that the Adventure genre is passe and
old hat, they, the reviewers are the ones who
are jaded and lack the imaginiation and discipline
to work through a complex plot and stay with
the development of a story line and want quick
action and meaningless speedy eye candy........
and they mis lead many readers into thinking
that the public and gamers as a whole
are tired of the most meaningful and creative
and positive area of gaming. We need to
assert what I feel to be true, that the
adventure game genre is a direct continuation
of written literature and will be seen as such
in times and years to come...and the
meaningless car chases and violence games will
be totally forgotten as are the thousands of un remembered and lost Victorian novellas, and
cheap dime store westerns and crime novels
of the 30's, 40's and 50's.....

As I review what is being created by Hollywood,
and the movie industry and TV, there is so much
frenetic and hyped speed in everything, like
everyone is on a caffeen and drug crazed
high speed crash constantly, clashing and
discordant sound, loud and ugly color schemes
or dark and angry mod zombie biker themes...
each more inspid and tired and hacknied than
the last....petty themes, imature schemes of
power and domination all signs of immature
and incomplete character development in
producers, actors and writere young and
old and this bleeding over into the game
world and game design and marketing.......
we desperately need the wholesome
and good values to be supported and
upheld with quality and integrity as in LJ
and the values therein.

Back to LJ, I feel that Ragnar and team
did pass through the invisible barrier of
just "making a game' into creating a rich
and varrigated story, a creative world, yes,
at times, it is more of a characture of itself
than others, but over all, there is am amazing
truth to itself quality, a sense of being valid
and meaningful on its own terms, definite
and real things happen to the characters
in the story, and the makers did not flinch
from real and significant issues, life and
death, joy and sorrow, the passage of time,
history and fate, and over all a cosmology
that equals any I have ever seen in a
game and equals much of written theology
and philosophy over eons of human history.
It is a living continuation of lore and legend,
and places itself squarely along the path of
contemporary thought and theory and gives
reasons and meanings to life that are
valid outside the story as well as within it.
The makers may not have intended all of that,
but may be they did....

The art, and the visuals are deep and rich
and beautiful and there is an overall style
and quality that is remarkable and shows
how quickly and how shallowly many other
games are created. Myst and some of the
sequels, Riven mainly for the following ones
were done by other companies than Cyan
and really dont equal the first two....some
of the early games in their own way, like
the Kyranida series, some have some of the
qualities of the visual universe and stylistic
depth of LJ, I havent tried Syberia yet, nor
Still Life, but see that they are a dark and
darkling world, and lack the full range of light
and joy and beauty perhaps, I dont know.
I have looked at the imagery of Grim Fandango
and find the death imagery frankly
hard to like, but I have very differnt
tastes from many and may try to play
though it to see what everyone here is
liking about it. My opinoins change over
time and indeed I welcome the chance
to learn and see and understand new
things, and voice my thoughts here
as a journey of thinking, NOT as doctrine
or Truth with a big T.

I suppose time will tell re LJ but for now,
I see in spite of its lapses and some of the
advances since then in graphics and
other things, it remains what appears a
timeless classic of considerable
depth, and is among the best of the
overall literataure certainly, the role of THE
best may be beyond any game to achieve....
.for who knows what will come next?

Thanks again for all the great discourse and consideration herein this
forum, much appreciated.

If games are a mirror of life, as is literature
and story and Fable, then we are indeed
enjoying a beautiful time of the Mirror, for
the game literature is huge and growing,
and adventure genre is I feel reviving and
as strong as ever in potential.....and
in the end, there is an old Zen saying,
that to be really free, one must
"Break the Mirror"......so perhaps as each
new really good game is created, maybe it
does just that, breaks the past limits
and forges ahead into the unknown and
beyond!

[scribeswindow]

I'm up to chapter 3 in TLJ and I can already see why it's up there with the classics. However, at this stage the GK series are my favourite. We'll see how we go by the end though.....

[Junkface]

Christian IV, you've opened my eyes. I always thought The Longest Journey was a good, but not great game, but your compelling arguments have opened my eyes; I now see that it's nothing more than artistically bankrupt shit best suited to filling intravenous drips for decadent morons. Thankyou.

[Almirena]

I'm still playing The Longest Journey... and I've been playing it for months, in the sense that I started it and haven't finished. I feel no great compulsion to complete it, although as I've bought it, I will finish it when I've time.

The game lost my full interest almost from the beginning. Mostly it's because I really do not like the character of April. I don't speak like her - I don't think like her. She seems to have dialogue straight out of "Legally Blond". It's probably because I'm not an American teenager using "I was, like, so not there!"

Ugh. Sorry. I just hate that style of talking.

Secondly, the puzzles... where is the challenge? They're dead easy.

Thirdly, mon dieu, those interminable monologues! On and on and on... and one can't afford to skip them in case there is vital information there... It's far, far too much for my liking.

There are some elements of the game that I like. But so far, the negative elements prevent me from desperating wishing to finish the game. Perhaps it improves... I suppose I'll find out.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by Christian IV

I havent tried Syberia yet, nor
Still Life, but see that they are a dark and
darkling world, and lack the full range of light
and joy and beauty perhaps, I dont know.

For information, Syberia's world isn't dark at all... Still Life is though, very much so. I think you should try Syberia, if you don't mind very east puzzles and little interaction ina game, because the art direction is very interesting. And charming.

And, uh, would you mind not writing in half-lines? It's poetic, but a bit difficult to read... Or perhaps it's only me.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Nomen may be omen, Junkface, but it does not have to be. Consider what you just did. I mean really.

Christian IV, pay no attention. It is heartening to hear from one with deeper appreciation of adventure games than those who use them only as distractions from their quiet desperation. (Or loud, as the case may be.)

[Junkface]

Pfft. I'm endearingly sardonic. I't should be clear that my outpourings of bile are meant at least partially in jest. If they were not, I'd be an asshole not worth being payed any heed... either way, noone gets hurt...

[Kwiksnax]

Originally Posted by TimK

I also wasn't crazy about The Longest Journey. It's an epic story, one with much promise. But as a story critic I thought the game was mediocre at best.

Playing The Longest Journey, I was bedazzled by the sights and sounds. The artwork and soundtrack, in particular, blew me away. But the way the game tells the story annoyed me more than it engaged me. And this is because the writers neglected the fundamentals of storytelling. If you listen to my podcast, in the recent episode "Three Things to Make Your Audience Adore You," they violated my #1 rule. This amateurish mistake oozed out into the setting and characterization, too.

The first rule is, as writers say, "Show; don't tell." And The Longest Journey completely missed the boat on this fundamental principle of storytelling. In the first chapter, for example, April stops to ask her landlady to describe her best friends. A good storyteller would have Emma and Charlie show us what kind of people they are, rather than asking Fiona to describe them.

Not only did descriptions substitute for storytelling, but also were some natural storytelling opportunities wasted. For instance, the setting: Stark and Arcadia. Stark is supposed to be rich in science and logic, but in the game it benefits less from science than our modern Earth.

Meanwhile, Arcadia is to magic as Stark is to science. But Arcadia is more of a traditional fantasyland than anything else. If Arcadia were really a land of magic, then why, for example, did April have to walk everywhere? In Stark, she takes the subway. In Arcadia, why can't she take a magic carpet or use a teleportation spell? There's every indication that such things exist in Arcadia, but they're not available to the common man? The most advanced form of travel in Arcadia in fact is by ship. And ships are creations of science, not of magic. At least an Arcadian ship uses a spirit compass for navigation. But, if they insist on traveling by sail, why at least don't they buy magic wind off the Arcadian market? This should be standard fare to enhance productivity on sea-faring vessels. A wind-moderating spell would be useful, too, during storms.

In short, instead of constantly telling us that Stark is a world of science and Arcadia is a world of magic, the game should have demonstrated it to us. Alas, no. The game doesn't tell us the story. The game shouts it at us, over and over again, until it's finally drilled into our heads, but not into our hearts.

For the first few chapters of The Longest Journey there was very little to compel me to go on. Take the intro. The intro is supposed to establish setting (April's bed), character (a girl who has weird dreams), goal (to paint). I got no motivation from any of that. The best part of the intro was seeing April in her underwear. If I hadn't read the reviews I wouldn't even have known what the game was about.

But perhaps the most disappointing aspect of The Longest Journey was the ending. I sat through a massive, at times arduous, story, only to be left wondering how it ended. What happened to April? What happened to Charlie and Emma and Fiona? How did April resolve her problems with the law? Or did she simply give up her former life? A hundred loose ends, and not even a hint of an answer. The time for loose ends is at the beginning of the story, not the end! How frustrating!

The best story games, even long ones, I play multiple times in order to experience the story in its fullness. (I do this with books and movies, too.) Grim Fandango and Full Throttle I've played more times than I can remember. The Pandora Directive I've played several times. The Longest Journey I tried to play a second time, because some of the scenes are truly breathtaking, but I just couldn't stomach it; the experience was just too distressing.

-TimK

Spot on! My thoughts exactly. TLJ's visual art is breathtaking, but the story is little more than tacky sci fi/fantasy, clumsily told.
I played it through once, and I'm glad that I did, but I'd never play it again.

[dazsin]

No -the gameplay is too flawed for it to be called 'best ever'. It would appear in the top twenty though.