[fov]

I am replaying GK3 right now. I noticed something I didn't the first time around, that supports what we were talking about above. It's in the email Grace receives from the monk.

Spoiler:

Basically, the email is full of talk about her destiny, and the fact that often people stay in situations they're not sure about because their purpose in those situations hasn't been realized yet.

(I can type out the email here later if anyone's interested.)

I took the email to be foreshadowing

Spoiler:

that Grace is still with Gabe because her destiny is to carry Gabe's baby -- and she must stick with him until that happens, even though she doesn't know it's going to happen.

I have just started on Day 3. In Day 2, I found

Spoiler:

the "encounter" between Gabe and Grace

to be much more touching than it seemed the first time. Maybe because I'm less annoyed by the game on the whole. Also, I saw a scene I'd never seen before (that was a weird sentence!), by stopping at L'Homme Mort on the way to Larry Chester's at 2 a.m.:

Spoiler:

Mosley is there digging a hole, he and Gabe get in a conversation (Mosely: Grace knows how you feel about her. Gabe [wide eyed]: She does?! Mosely: You should be more careful how you treat her. Gabe: But... I treat Grace like a queen!)

That conversation -- and Gabe's reaction to what Mosely said -- REALLY changed how I felt about what happens when Gabe gets back to the hotel that night. And, I suspect it'll make me feel differently about the ending too.

Arg... I'm really enjoying the story and trying to get extra points, but it's SO frustrating to play this knowing there will never be a resolution...

-emily

[redhotray]

There may yet be a conclusion. There may yet

Just because it's not Jane Jensen's priority right now, that doesn't mean it won't be in time to come.

She knows full well that the Gabriel Knight series has been one of her most popular commodities.

Then again, maybe the series was always meant to be a trilogy. Personally, I think it's a good ending to the games, seeing as how we are still talking about its conclusion now, asking questions and trying to answer them ourselves. Maybe if we were given the true answer, we would not feel so gratified .

There are just some sequels that should not be made. Monkey Island 5 may also be one of them (as much as it pains me to say so).

[fov]

From the monk's email, which Grace receives near the beginning of GK3:

I sense that you feel tied to your current situation... Destiny can also be a heavy weight--and I sense your destiny is a deep one. Sometimes we must wait for the event in which we are to particpate before we can move on. Let this thought give you patience.

If you read between the lines this says a lot about what happens between Grace and Gabe in this game (if our speculations are right).

Just because it's not Jane Jensen's priority right now, that doesn't mean it won't be in time to come.

It could be her very highest priority, but that still doesn't mean Vivendi would be willing. I guess I don't have much faith in Vivendi. But in cases like this, I love to be proven wrong.

-emily

[Hiro Protagonist]

I recently completed a set of questions for an AdventureGamers interview w/ Jane. One of the questions that I asked was whether she would consider trying to buy the rights to GK from Vivendi now that she's with the Adventure Company and also running her own new company. I'm dying to hear the answer, so cross your fingers and stay tuned...

[The Silent Dude]

I believe she left because Gabriel didn't really behave himself. He said some stupid things (remember the talks with Mosley). Or she had problems that their evening would screw further ways to work with each other.

I love GKIII cuz Gabriel goes through some changes. But Grace didn't notice that I suppose.

If she'd be pregnant, she sure wouldn't raise a kid with Gabriel as father.

[TekXombie]

Although I liked the graphical look of GK3, I was a little disappointed with it. Still, I can't wait for the fourth one and I never did think about the prospect of her being pregnant, but it's kind of a neat idea. Oh and I thought she was going away to see some monk or something. Might be a different game I'm thinking of, hmm...


-Tek

[DomStLeger]

Yep she took up the offer to train with the monks in india. As for her pregnancy - I had no idea and never picked up on that, though it makes sense now.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

NOTE TO MODS: Time to put *SPOILERS* in the title of this thread.

[Wormsie]

I never understood the meaning of that poem by Charles Peguy (or how do you spell it). Was its message irrelevant or not?

[Crunchy in milk]

I don't think Grace is the kind of person who would keep it a secret from Gabriel for long, it would eat at her far too much. As soon as he finds out you know it will change his perception of his work, what's in store for the child (imagine if its a boy!) and its great story fuel to keep him moving away from his self centered nature from the first 2 GK's. Having lived through 3 adventures with all major 'good' guys in tact, he needs something to make him vulnerable again just when he's getting the hang of it.

Does he ease up on the Schattenjager racket in favour of more gainful employment to support the kid or is he forced into it even deeper to protect his (wife and) progeny. If she has it, they're getting married eventually... you know it! I'm all hot for a 'Sins of the Fathers' from another perspective now damnit.

OH and they have to make a Monkey Island 5, the characters have an unbreakable 5 game contract remember?

[baul]

I always believed Grace was pregnant, but I don't think she knew about it when she left for India (which I'm pretty sure she did).
I wouldn't say Grace was in love with Gabriel, but she definetally cared for him. He didn't exactly rape her that night and she seemed more confused than anything the next day about what she should do and feel. I think that after she and Gabe slept together she realised she felt *something* for him and those feelings were really undesireable, especially after overhearing Gabriel and Mosely talk in the dining room. Grace has always been this strong, independent woman who definetally didn't want anything to do with "the womanizer" in that field.

However, I think Gabriel is in love with Grace and has been for a long time. This is a guy who is what? 35? He's never settled down, he's never stuck to one woman for a long time, and except for Malia Gedde, he's never been really in love. Grace is not the lovesick one in this game, Gabe is. I think he fell for Grace in the end of GK2.

So, Gabe goes about, trying to pick up Madeline, Roxanne, Jean, and almost everyone in the game, not really knowing himself how he feels for Grace. He does give us a lot of hints, though. The whole chair conversation with Mosely, when he tell Mose that, basically, Grace is too good for him [Gabriel].

The conversation between Gabriel and Mosely in the dining room, where Gabriel refers to Grace as a chastity belt, was a mistake on Mrs. Jensen's behalf, imo.
It kinda blows this whole idea that Gabe was in love with Grace.
But, we can speculate that it was simply a joke and that he didn't mean anything with it. They [Gabe and Mose] were kinda laid back there, kidding around (like the pheromone thing).

There is no doubt in my mind that Gabriel was in love with Grace.
He was after Madeline the whole game, but in the end, when he gets back to the hotel after saving the kid, he turns her down.
Madeline said that everything she said to him, she really ment it (translation: "I WANT YOU!!!")
But then, Gabriel says "Yeah, well, I just realised I DIDN'T mean it."
and runs straight up to his room, calling for Grace.

He ditched Madeline for Grace. All this time he was trying to get into Madeline's bed and when he finally gets the chance, he doesn't.

I'd say that Gabriel and Grace both loved each other but Grace didn't know Gabe loved her and vice versa.
So, Grace *runs away* (pregnant) to those monks in India and Gabriel probably goes back home thinking it's over.

[CrimsonBlue]

I just finished Gabriel Knight 3 and I absolutely LOVED it. I never gave this game a chance, because I didn't know how to get subtitles and I didn't like the interface. Also, the game didn't run very well on my old computers.

Strange thing is, I got slowdowns no matter what I did this time too. I have a AMD Athlon XP1800+, 512MB RAM, 120*2 GB HD and Radeon 9800Pro 128mb, and I suspect that should be more than enough for a perfect run. Anyway, I use Windows XP Pro, so I guess that's part of the problem.

Still, never really cared about the occasional slowdowns, they were easy to ignore.

Ah, anyway... Gabriel Knight 3 was the best in the series. I wasn't really that impressed with the first two (they WERE good though), but Gabriel Knight 3 really took off. I didn't care for a GK4 after playing the first two, but after GK3 I look really really forward to Project Jane-J and see what it's about and how the game mechanics will work.

Truly a great adventure-game, one of the best ever. The high expectations for the GK series wasn't fullfilled until GK3, but that's enough for me. If GK4 will ever come out, then it won't have the story hinted at in GK3 (search "gk4"). That's what I feel. GK4 will not even be called GK4, but just Gabriel Knight plus a fitting subtitle. It has to make sense for newcomers, and unless the first three games will be released as a package the way LucasArts did with LucasArts Adventure Pack and make them playable on WinXP, the newcomers will never have heard of the first three games before or know what has happened up until GK4.

[charybdis]

I disagree. I thought that they were all handled the best by the first game, the second was excellent and that the third was pretty awful - script, puzzles and even the basic storyline really weren't up to scratch. I'd seriously been looking forward to it and was moderately optimistic during what I thought was the lead-up to something good, but then it fizzled really, really hard. Gabriel especially had gone from being a lovable rogue into a character who frankly deserved to get reversed over by a car. A few nice moments (notably 'The Night'), but as a whole it just left a blood-bitter 'wasted opportunity' taste in my craw.

[CrimsonBlue]

Yeah, I agree the puzzles were sometimes pretty dumb, but then the game had some of the greatest puzzles ever too. I must admit, The Red Serpet puzzle got me stuck for longer than most of the other parts of the game. I also like the way the game gives you timeblocks, although I liked the way it was implemented in Cruise For a Corpse even better, where every puzzle pushed the time forward 10 to 20 minutes, based on the size of the puzzle.

I wonder why there aren't more games that used this system. Strange...

[RAJ]

My favorite was GKII though I prefer the look of the animated Gabe and of course, Tim Currey's voice.

I always felt that Grace was pregnant too. I need to replay the games though a "friend" borrowed them years ago and then moved taking them with her. Unforgiveable.

After reading this thread it may just be time to buy them again. If they manage to pull a GK4 out of the hat then I'll definitely buy it though I'm doubtful that they will.

Right now I'm eager to see what else Jane is working on.

[charybdis]

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

Yeah, I agree the puzzles were sometimes pretty dumb, but then the game had some of the greatest puzzles ever too.

I really can't think of any standout puzzles in the entire game, but I've never really rated Jensen that highly as a puzzle-writer anyway ("Yep, let's distract the guard with a cuckoo clock!" "Syrup and cat hair moustache!"). My favourites are still the ones in the first game, courtesy of them largely continuing the investigation and voodoo vibe - writing coded messages or dealing with the rada dums and so on.

The showstopper GK3 puzzle - Le Serpent Rouge - suffered pretty heavily from the fact that all its clues led you to a blindingly obvious HOLE IN THE GROUND which you'd ALREADY FOUND WHILE CASUALLY WANDERING ABOUT. I could never get over the total inanity of this. The puzzle itself was a great idea, and fitted very well into the overall mystery, but its actual execution was pretty lacking - you never really had much opportunity to do anything wrong, turning it from being an intriguing jigsaw into clicking the flashy buttons on SIDNEY the Magic Computer until Grace decided it was time to go and grab a coffee. Nice idea, not that great execution - even compared to the infamous sekey madoule puzzle. The same is true for many of the others, which don't hold up to much inspection - such as why anyone would set up a convoluted laser and pentagrams security system to protect what turns out to be the wine cellar.

As for the storyline, it's basically a total mess. I don't know what people see in it, because it's really not very well told.

Above all else, it lost the feel of investigating a specific case. If the story was Gabriel having a potter around the area for his own interest, that's would be thing - but one of the main hooks of the series was in its dual-plotting nature. You got the modern storyline which mattered during the timescale of the game, along with the historical background which put it all into perspective - von Glower's hunting club and Gabriel's descent into werewolfery seperate, but intertwined, from the story of the Black Wolf's relationship with Ludwig and Wagner's last opera). Smoking Dragon is a pretty good example of the same technique. In GK3, we get reams and reams of the historical stuff, but a very weak reworking into the modern day.

There's no shortage of examples, but let's take the research element. In the first GK, Gabe was writing a book about voodoo, making this a key part of the game. He only realises his personal stake in it very near the end. That works. In the second, Grace picks up the reigns, but again, that fits the plot. In BOTS/BOTD, we're meant to be in a race against time to recover the kidnapped child - pissing about making fun of Mosely or taking a day out to tour a vinyard slows the pace to frankly ridiculous levels - and it's not long before you basically forget about the kid, and turn full-scale into doing whatever random stuff turns up until Baza gets fed up and flat out tells you what's going on.

Back in the 'modern' plot, our antagonists are weak, and barely relevant, what passes for an investigation is meandering, and the writing (especially from Gabriel, who could always be a bit of a jerk but had unaccountably turned into a total asshole) is often flat-out bad by Jensen's standards - even accepting that this is the kind of story where stereotypes are going to rule the roost. It throws up reference after reference after reference, but conspicuously fails to do anything with most of them.

Each of the individual visitors' mini-stories are very much isolated, quickly summed up and play no real part in proceedings - even in cases like the priest's, where they directly tie into the wider storyline. Historically speaking, it's a conspiracy lover's checklist - elements like the Knights Templar and Priory of Zion quickly brought up and dismissed with a casual flick of the wrist until it descends to women screaming 'Blue Apples! Blue Apples!' for no reason whatsoever except to tick that box off the list, and a conclusion of "Well, basically, Sauniere made most of this shit up. Right! Where did we put those vampires?"

Sure, it's still a better story than many adventures can offer, but by Gabriel Knight standards, it's weaker than werewolf piss. Jensen is capable of so much better that it's simply not funny. GK3 had such a fragmented development period that I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that it had been redesigned and redesigned on the fly and the original concept was much stronger. I don't know if it did or not, but I'd like to think so.

I also like the way the game gives you timeblocks, although I liked the way it was implemented in Cruise For a Corpse even better, where every puzzle pushed the time forward 10 to 20 minutes, based on the size of the puzzle. I wonder why there aren't more games that used this system. Strange...

I liked it in the Laura Bow games, although it meant they were mercilessly hard. In particular, the fact that you could get to the end of the game, but were then asked to prove that you'd really solved the mystery instead of just a few puzzles was a classic idea that more adventures should do.

[dave_minall]

ouch, that hurt. whatever the game is like, i will still buy it, i will still enjoy every minute of it knowing that it is the greatest game series i have ever played, and possibly ever will play. The First game rates as the best game i have ever played, with the second being the worst because Dean Erickson was not gabriel in my eyes. he is far too pleasent and not a chauvanist like he is in 1 and 3. Tim curry is the one and only gabriel knight in my eyes. I just hope they can entice tim back for gabriel knight 4, because it will happen. it must happen and thats all there is to it.

[Wormsie]

Originally Posted by baul

However, I think Gabriel is in love with Grace and has been for a long time. This is a guy who is what? 35? He's never settled down, he's never stuck to one woman for a long time, and except for Malia Gedde, he's never been really in love. Grace is not the lovesick one in this game, Gabe is. I think he fell for Grace in the end of GK2.

Yep, maybe not lovesick, but we learn in GK1 that "three (?) women have loved Gabriel purely" and I think Jane Jensen herself said that Grace was one of them. The others were her mom and Malia. Or maybe Grandma Knight? There's always an alternative!

[Dragonrose]

Aww, man! I thought there was some new news.

Why on earth did you dig up a thread that's over a year old?

[Wormsie]

I just decided to reply for the heck of it. Fov linked to it a while ago.