[Richard]

Originally Posted by mag

This may be a surprise to you, but faces are less recognizable when they're half covered in facial hair. Between that and the hat, Gabe has a chance of passing himself off as the person on the ID. Without it, he'd be caught in a minute.

Even discounting the fact that he's already met the guy he's trying to fool and been told to get lost? About half an hour earlier, in game time? A guy who has no other customers due to having already rented out all his bikes to the rest of the tour?

C'mon. This isn't quibbling over details, it's looking at rampant stupidity.

So what? We can't have puzzles that are used for the purpose of character development?

Sure. Character regression? Not so good.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Richard

C'mon. This isn't quibbling over details, it's looking at rampant stupidity.

No, it's pretty much just quibbling.

Originally Posted by Richard

Sure. Character regression? Not so good.

That doesn't even make sense. In what way is Gabe's character "regressing?"

mag

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

Why not? It's not much worse than the cuckoo clock from GK2. Plus, it's the last *really* decent mystery ((adventure)) game experience since... oh, dear. Houston, we have a problem.

The puzzles veer into the realms of complete stupidity, that's why.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by mag

That doesn't even make sense. In what way is Gabe's character "regressing?

Remember all that 'becoming a better person' and 'taking on the mantle of the Schattenjager' stuff from the early games? Keep thinking. It'll come back to you.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

The puzzles veer into the realms of complete stupidity, that's why.

Like they're doing for years now.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Richard

Remember all that 'becoming a better person' and 'taking on the mantle of the Schattenjager' stuff from the early games? Keep thinking. It'll come back to you.

Gabe has always been a bit of a self-centered asshole. That's part of who he is. The whole thing with the bike is meant to show that. "Becoming a better person" doesn't mean he's going to change completely.

And that still isn't a "regression." Explain to me. What does "character regression" even mean?

mag

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by mag

And that still isn't a "regression." Explain to me. What does "character regression" even mean?

Going back to where you started. Life's a pain in the ass.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by mag

Gabe has always been a bit of a self-centered asshole. That's part of who he is.

He's been a self-centered character from the start, but only in GK3 was he a complete asshole, and only at that point does he do anything so insipidly selfish and short-sighed. He's mean to Mosely, and inadvertently to Grace, but when the situation hots up, he goes out and he gets the job done. In all the other games. Sometimes he needs a prod to get started, but the Gabriel we know from every other part of the series wouldn't have done something so mindblowingly idiotic when a kid's life was on the line.

And that still isn't a "regression." Explain to me. What does "character regression" even mean?

I'd ask if you're being deliberately dense, but that's pretty much a dead cert given that you're taking umbrage at people pointing out the idiocies of the maple-syrup cat moustache puzzle.

Regression. Opposite of development. Turning our hero into a complete jackass, against anything in the whole series - purely to force the player through one of the most idiotic puzzles ever committed to an adventure game. A puzzle that sits, proving athiests correct, even as the story tries to include the life of Christ. It is a bad puzzle beyond bad puzzles - it is its king, its emperor, it makes Roberta Williams seem talented in comparison. And that's weapons grade bad puzzle.

[stuboy]

Hello all. First post here so hate to jump into slagging stuff off but;

GK3 plain sucked. I haven't played the other games, but after playing that tedium (through to the end, may I add, although probably with liberal walkthrough usage, I forget) I can't say I'm inclined too. The bittersweet ending did partially redeem it, but the gameplay and the story telling was too complicated and contrived for it's own good, and it used up it's suspension-of-disbelief quotient very early because Jensen tried to squeeze basically every daft conspiracy / occult / buried treasure element she could find into it, and wrote a villian who was so comically camp I was laughing ribena out of my nose. And the lead character was a tosser, and the control your own camera thing turned it into a flight-sim. Which was all a pity, because I could see a lot of work had been poured into the whole production. Perhaps the most irritating thing, though, was how it took itself and it's ridiculous plot so po-facedly seriously. I did quite enjoy the "serpent rouge" puzzle though.

<Dodges angry flames>

[Fien]

Originally Posted by neovsmatrix

Ever play the first two games? Truly the best adventure games I've ever played.

Yeah, I've played all three of them when they were released. Like I said, I'm not a GK fan. It's kind of weird but I have a hard time remembering anything much about them. Storywise, puzzlewise, graphics etcetera. All I remember is how I felt about the games at the time. I know I liked the Serpent Rouge puzzle, the emotional stuff going on between Grace and GK. I got very bored with the story at the end of GK3. Contrived doesn't begin to describe it.

[stuboy]

Originally Posted by Fienepien

It's kind of weird but I have a hard time remembering anything much about them.

That just about sums it up. Utterly unmemorable.

[UPtimist]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

The puzzles veer into the realms of complete stupidity, that's why.

I haven't yet heard from you any other bad puzzle except the moustache puzzle, like I haven't heard from anyone. And if we're saying a game has only bad puzzles (even though it has the best puzzle ever in adventure game history, and any gaming history ) would you say that for example Grim Fandango is such a game? It wasn't perfect all the way, nowhere near. And it even had a horrible interface.

[talkshow]

Easily easily easily easily....FULL THROTTLE.

The entire ending sequence has been unmatched by others with excitement, fun and ironic resolution.

Talk about the most climactic ending too. I must have shown that ending sequence to several of my friends who wanted to then start from the beginning. Doh.

Can't beat a Corley....How poetic.

[cy007]

Out of all the adventure games I've played (which isn't a whole lot mind you), Grim Fandango has the greatest ending. Good closure, really touching; I never expected a game to end so exceptionally well. Imagine yourself weeping out of the sheer joy of somebody getting what they always longed for... in a game. That's how good it was.

[Captain Blondebeard]

Call me crazy but I didnt really like Grim Fandango's ending. I didnt get any closure. You dont know if he gets the girl. You dont know what happens to them. It doesnt explain where they are taken. My biggest beef is in his final battle with Domino it just couldnt have been easier to figure out how to sprout him.

I loved the game but I dont see everyones love with the ending.

[42yoMan]

Hmm... Interisting. I allways thought that GK3 was one of the most loved adveture games within the AG community. What I can't understand is why everyone is knicking because of that stupid Moustach puzzle. Every game has at least one terrible puzzle. Look at MI2 and the monkey wrench puzzle; or Still Life with the cookie puzzle. You shouldn't judge a whole game based on one bad experience with a puzzle. Alse, GK3 also features one of the greatest puzzles in any adventuregame: "Le Serpent Rouge". It would have to one of the most ingeniously designed puzzles ever, but it seems that everyone is overlooking that.

And for those who think that the story is terrible, just take a look in your local bookshop and see that the story of Gabriel Knight 3 has become one of the greatest selling books of all time.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by 42yoMan

Hmm... Interisting. I allways thought that GK3 was one of the most loved adveture games within the AG community.

It is.

Alse, GK3 also features one of the greatest puzzles in any adventuregame: "Le Serpent Rouge". It would have to one of the most ingeniously designed puzzles ever, but it seems that everyone is overlooking that.

In this thread maybe. But the Red Snake has been praised more than any other puzzle.

And for those who think that the story is terrible, just take a look in your local bookshop and see that the story of Gabriel Knight 3 has become one of the greatest selling books of all time.

So? There's no relation between quality and quantity.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Richard

He's been a self-centered character from the start, but only in GK3 was he a complete asshole, and only at that point does he do anything so insipidly selfish and short-sighed. He's mean to Mosely, and inadvertently to Grace, but when the situation hots up, he goes out and he gets the job done. In all the other games.

Which is exactly the same as in GK3.

Originally Posted by Richard

Sometimes he needs a prod to get started, but the Gabriel we know from every other part of the series wouldn't have done something so mindblowingly idiotic when a kid's life was on the line.

How is it idiotic? It's not as though he's really pressed for time. He doesn't KNOW where the kid is. All he's doing is checking out the area until James' men show up. What would you prefer for him to do? Wander around aimlessly in the hopes that he'll happen to stumble across James' kid?

So he used a fake ID to get a better bike (which, in addition to being about pride, also serves a very utilitarian purpose, BTW). So what? That took what, maybe fifteen minutes? It's not as though it's something that really set him back.

If he was on his way to go save the kid, and he stopped to get the better bike, then you might have a point. As it is, he's not really hurting anyone.

Originally Posted by Richard

Regression. Opposite of development. Turning our hero into a complete jackass, against anything in the whole series - purely to force the player through one of the most idiotic puzzles ever committed to an adventure game.

The only way something like "character regression" could possibly work would be if all character development followed a purely linear progression. But that's completely assinine. As is the concept of "character regression" which you just made up and are now taking offense at someone not understanding the completely nonsensical term that exists only in your own mind. Character development is ANY change that a character goes through. It doesn't necessarily have to be a "good" change. If a character becomes a better person, that's character development. If a character becomes a total jackass, that's character development too.

Frankly, GK3 fits very well with Gabe's progression as a character through the series. It would be MUCH stranger if he went through the schatenjager trials and all of a sudden became a good person forever and always and never did anything bad for the rest of his life. You don't just "become a better person." Gabriel is impulsive and self-centered. That's something he's always going to have to deal with because it's part of his character. Learning something about yourself doesn't mean you're not going to revisit that aspect of your character ever again.

Originally Posted by Richard

A puzzle that sits, proving athiests correct, even as the story tries to include the life of Christ. It is a bad puzzle beyond bad puzzles - it is its king, its emperor, it makes Roberta Williams seem talented in comparison. And that's weapons grade bad puzzle.

It really wasn't that difficult. If you had a hard time with it, maybe adventure games aren't the genre for you.

However, judging from your responses, I really don't think you're that interested in having an adult conversation. So I'm just going to take the same tactic I've taken with Aj_ in the past and start ignoring you now.

I will simply leave you with a paraphrase of Guybrush Threepwood: you wouldn't know a good story if you paid fifty bucks for it.

mag

[Hamham Chan]

King´s Quest 2:

Spoiler:

Graham finds his dreamwoman and gets to marry her.
At the church, many of the characters that he encountered in the first and second game show up as guests for the wedding.
Even the villains, like the dragon and that little elf who keeps stealing stuff.

Space Quest 1:

Spoiler:

Roger Wilco saves the galaxy, and is given a golden mop as a reward.Why a golden mop you may ask? Well, he is a janitor after all

[dave_minall]

has everybody forgot about full throttle???

OH MY GOD!

sheer brilliance.