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Old 06-17-2007, 02:44 AM   #21
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I think this article is a great summary about the most controversial ending in Adventure games history.
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Old 06-19-2007, 08:03 PM   #22
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I'm probably the only person that liked the ending cause I found it soooooooooo CUTE!!!
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:52 PM   #23
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I think people put waaay to much thought into this. This isn't LOST

Two dimentions? hahah

It being a spell isn't a stretch at all. Chuckie doing his evil eyes at the screen obviously means it's fake.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:11 AM   #24
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I think people put waaay to much thought into this. This isn't LOST
Contradiction. It's rather obvious that the writers of LOST haven't put much thought in it at all. They rather just make one mysterious event after the other. They don't even know how the series will end. Basically, it's the writers who are lost.
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Old 06-20-2007, 03:28 AM   #25
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I'm probably the only person that liked the ending cause I found it soooooooooo CUTE!!!
I, for one, also found it cute. A bit disappointing, perhaps, but I think it certainly was meant to be a closure to the MI series. And not so confusing after all. (Well, except that most of the game is a flash-back, but that too could be part of a children's game.)
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:35 AM   #26
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Contradiction. It's rather obvious that the writers of LOST haven't put much thought in it at all. They rather just make one mysterious event after the other. They don't even know how the series will end. Basically, it's the writers who are lost.
Not to take this waaay off topic, but since you brought up LOST... I completely disagree. I think they've known where they're going from the start, at least in a general sense, and they sure as hell know how it's ending -- they've even announced the exact number of seasons (3) and episodes (48) remaining.
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Old 06-20-2007, 11:55 AM   #27
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Not to take this waaay off topic, but since you brought up LOST... I completely disagree. I think they've known where they're going from the start, at least in a general sense, and they sure as hell know how it's ending -- they've even announced the exact number of seasons (3) and episodes (48) remaining.
Actually, I think they've confirmed themselves that they haven't got a clue how to end it yet. So they've given themselves until 2010 (three seasons, as you said) to work it all out.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:00 PM   #28
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Contradiction. It's rather obvious that the writers of LOST haven't put much thought in it at all. They rather just make one mysterious event after the other. They don't even know how the series will end. Basically, it's the writers who are lost.
This is wholly correct.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:04 PM   #29
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INcorrect!
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:31 PM   #30
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Hey, I like LOST just as much as the next person, but there's no need to give them any more credit than they deserve.

Strange, how you believe the writers of the most confusing and nonsensical plot ever written for a tv series to be geniuses, but don't give any credit at all to Ron Gilbert, the inventor and writer for the best* adventure game in history?

*highly subjective, of course
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Old 06-20-2007, 05:02 PM   #31
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Hey, I like LOST just as much as the next person, but there's no need to give them any more credit than they deserve.
Sorry, I guess I just don't find LOST all that confusing, and I haven't seen any evidence to support the theory that they don't know what they're doing. In fact, I think they're taking us on a great ride and even if they didn't have everything 100% mapped out at the start (and no one ever does, in any medium) I don't see any evidence at all that they haven't always had a general idea.

Quote:
Strange, how you believe the writers of the most confusing and nonsensical plot ever written for a tv series to be geniuses, but don't give any credit at all to Ron Gilbert, the inventor and writer for the best* adventure game in history?
You must have me confused with someone else. I'm Ron Gilbert's biggest fan. We agree that he deserves the largest share of the credit for the MI series and that he had a plan for MI3.

And who said the writers of LOST need to be geniuses just because I think they know what they're doing?
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Old 06-20-2007, 06:01 PM   #32
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You must have me confused with someone else. I'm Ron Gilbert's biggest fan. We agree that he deserves the largest share of the credit for the MI series and that he had a plan for MI3.
Even if I agreed with the last part of that statement (which I might consider if you broke into my house and held a gun to my head, but otherwise no dice) you are seriously slighting Tim Schafer, who wrote almost all the dialogue in MI1 and MI2. In fact, he and Dave Grossman were the ones who convinced Ron Gilbert that Monkey Island should be a comedy in the first place.

Ron, who had been influenced by reading the much darker-in-tone pirates/voodoo/magic novel On Stranger Tides (which I heartily recommend, by the way) initially thought about making a more serious game, until Schafer started writing gut-bursting dialogue. In fact, Ron toyed with the idea of making the swordfighting sequence an out-and-out action puzzle, until his co-writers found a way to make it less actiony and far more humorous.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:19 AM   #33
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You must have me confused with someone else. I'm Ron Gilbert's biggest fan. We agree that he deserves the largest share of the credit for the MI series and that he had a plan for MI3.
My comment was meant for xChri5x, so it wasn't directed at you.

ATMachine - we're talking about story here. It's the story he (Ron) was mainly in charge of. I'm not discrediting Tim Schafer or Dave Grossman or anyone for their inputs. Who could?
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:37 AM   #34
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Even if I agreed with the last part of that statement (which I might consider if you broke into my house and held a gun to my head, but otherwise no dice) you are seriously slighting Tim Schafer, who wrote almost all the dialogue in MI1 and MI2. In fact, he and Dave Grossman were the ones who convinced Ron Gilbert that Monkey Island should be a comedy in the first place.
No one, least of all Ron Gilbert himself, wants to diminish Tim Schafer and Dave Grossman's contributions. Gilbert mentions Shafer, at the very least, in just about every interview about MI. On the other hand, you seem to hold Schafer and Grossman in extremely high regard almost the exclusion of Ron doing anything good at all!
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:55 AM   #35
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Even if I agreed with the last part of that statement (which I might consider if you broke into my house and held a gun to my head, but otherwise no dice) you are seriously slighting Tim Schafer, who wrote almost all the dialogue in MI1 and MI2. In fact, he and Dave Grossman were the ones who convinced Ron Gilbert that Monkey Island should be a comedy in the first place.
I never thought the dialogue in Monkey Island 1 was especially funny. I always attributed it to Ron Gilbert, but maybe I should attribute it to Schafer and Grossman still being not so mature writers. MI2 was better already.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:43 AM   #36
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No one, least of all Ron Gilbert himself, wants to diminish Tim Schafer and Dave Grossman's contributions. Gilbert mentions Shafer, at the very least, in just about every interview about MI. On the other hand, you seem to hold Schafer and Grossman in extremely high regard almost the exclusion of Ron doing anything good at all!
Perhaps I haven't been entirely clear.

I respect Ron for coming up with the idea for MI; without him there wouldn't have been a series to speak of. Perhaps even more important than that are his contributions to the modern graphic adventure: the elimination of dead ends; the disdain for unnecessary death sequences; the expectation that the player shouldn't solve puzzles with knowledge the protagonist doesn't have; the creation of an interface that made text parsers unnecessary; the popularization of cutscenes to advance the story. Adventures that violate these rules are seen as inferior, and we have him to thank for it. Without Ron Gilbert the graphic adventure would be a far different beast.

My campaign is not to discredit him for what he has done. Rather, I am campaigning against the hero-worshipping of Ron by people who make him into a saint. All this talk of his "plan" for MI3, and the notion that a new MI game wouldn't be good without him, make me sick. He's only human, and I think he's exaggerated to some degree what ideas he did have, and kept them secret so we'd all have our tongues wagging. As noknowncure said in another thread, it's self-marketing.

The man's made some great games; more importantly, he created the modern conception of what an adventure should be. But let's not credit him for things he may not have done, or act like his game ideas are all descended from heaven.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:56 AM   #37
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the most confusing and nonsensical plot ever written for a tv series
You don't exactly sound like someone who "likes LOST just as much as the next person" here. Like chapter11, I've never had troubles following its "confusing" plot, and it never seemed to me any more nonsensical than other high-concept fantasy/surreal shows. And just FYI, the writers have been claiming that they know how the story ends since the beginning of season 2 at least.

On topic, your thoughts on Monkey Island 2 seem to be pretty similar to the theory in the second half of this post, which I agree 100% with.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:22 AM   #38
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You don't exactly sound like someone who "likes LOST just as much as the next person" here. Like chapter11, I've never had troubles following its "confusing" plot, and it never seemed to me any more nonsensical than other high-concept fantasy/surreal shows. And just FYI, the writers have been claiming that they know how the story ends since the beginning of season 2 at least.
Hmmm, I was so sure that I've read somewhere they've said they didn't know how to end it yet, so they felt they had to set a date for the ending. Ah well, if I'm wrong that's great.

That said, I hope the explanation is more than just some supernatural beings or something. The whole idea of the series is to make us think there's a rational explanation for all that's happening. If that goes away, then the point of LOST is, well, lost. The whole story will have no impact whatsoever, if that's the case. It'll be just another sci-fi/fantasy story. I really hope it doesn't end up being that.

Ah well, we'll see more of LOST next year (early 2008 supposedly) here in Norway. Felt like a really short season. I hate waiting that long.

ATMachine: Well, is it worth talking down on Ron just to put a few so-called worshippers in their place? I mean, it's possible to believe that he's had the story for the third game all along in his head without worshiping him as a god. It's seems your just trying to play ying and yang here, just trying to balance things out for the sake of it. How does saying "Ron is just lying" help your case? You only make Ron sound bad, while pissing off the very few overly enthusiastic fanboys (which I'm not, I just happen to believe what he says).

I just think that the MI2 ending is not even remotely like an open ending. It's a cliff-hanger ending. If you've seen all of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, compare the endings on the second movie to the third movie.

Open endings isn't used as an excuse to abruptly end games/movies. It contains closure, while at the same time opens up for a new game/movie. MI2 wasn't like that. It wasn't closure at all. Cliff-hanger endings are meant to tell people there's going to be a sequel, and that's exactly what MI2 did. If the end was meant as a closure, there'd be more explanation, or it would be the equivelent of the infamous "Congratulations, you completed the game!" endings.
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:57 AM   #39
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Cliff-hanger endings are meant to tell people there's going to be a sequel, and that's exactly what MI2 did. If the end was meant as a closure, there'd be more explanation, or it would be the equivelent of the infamous "Congratulations, you completed the game!" endings.
I think the problem here is that the rest of MI2 is good enough that legions of gamers have convinced themselves the ending can't possibly stink, and is therefore a brilliant setup for Ron's MI3!!!11

The truth is a hard thing to accept sometimes.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:00 AM   #40
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The truth is a hard thing to accept sometimes.
Unfortunately for you, your only argument in this case is "I think Ron is lying" and "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!".

I think it's you who's in denial. I certainly believe Ron, the brains behind the MI series, more than I believe you. Seriously, why would Ron lie? If it was a lie, we'd know that for sure by now. Yet he continues to say in basically every interview about MI. I honestly don't understand the reason for calling him a liar - it only sounds like you're trying to put him and his fans down.

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