[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by gray pierce

But...but...but...i haven't played it (for earlier described reasons) but from what I've seen of it Heavy Rain is an AG! It's an AG with action sequences but I did indeed get the impression they're story driven rather than skill driven. So yes, since you just confirmed that I wholeheartedly agree Heavy Rain is an AG. I'm really sorry if I gave you the impression I dissagreed on that point. So just to get it out of the way: Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, Dreamfall...all AGs in my opinion.

Go buy/rent/borrow yourself a PS3 and play it! Admittedly I haven't finished it yet, left off about 1/3 through. I found that it's one of those games where I have to be in a particular state of mind to enjoy - that is, if you consider a very somber, emotionally draining story based game as enjoyment.

Ah another misunderstanding here. If a puzzle is there for the challenge than it is an intellectual challenge something what AGs are all about in my opinion. However if an action sequence is there just for the challenge than it's a challenge of skill wich is something that doesn't belong in my definition of an AG. I't doesn't sound fair, I know but it makes sense if you look at it in terms of purpose. Besides just having a good time AGs are there to challenge you're brain. Therefore they tend to have a good story that will challenge your mind in a small way (figuring out what's going on) and lots of puzzles that will challange your mind big time. I'm talking ideal situation here of course

Shhh! Not so loud, imisssunwell might be listening. We can still argue that it's possible to introduce a few action or skill based sequences in a game that are well integrated into story and character and the game can still be categorized as an adventure.

As for the second bit. I guess that's possible looking at games like Dreamfall and Fahrenheit and probably Heavy Rain but the emphasis of the action sequences has to be on the story rather than the challenge otherwise I wouldn't call it an AG.

My idea of action is running (away from danger) fighting or shooting.

Like in Dreamfall? Also, there were stealth sequences in Broken Sword 3 which I consider action.

Yes but why would he? Later on you stated that every game should use the graphics that the developer thinks suits them best and I agree with you on that one. After all, no one knows the game better than the one who made it. So obviously CC thought the graphics that suited this game best were 3D, whether thay had effect on the puzzles or not. And I do think 3D had effect on them.

Ah, but nowhere did I state that the developer choosing a certain format for an adventure game means that that format will always work perfectly for it. Honestly, I don't know how much experience Charles Cecil and his team have had with real time 3D at the time they worked on BS3. But I'm judging them based on the results in the finished game. And my summary on it is that they didn't quite take advantage of 3D in the way that, say, David Cage did in Heavy Rain, or most any developer who has extensive experience working with the 3D format.

For instance a lot of puzzles involve jumping, grabbing on to ledges and shimmying. Try doing that in 2D!

It's been done. One of the most recent examples is Shadow Complex (gameplay clip), an action title that looks and feels like a 2D side scroller.

Nope, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I was trying to say is if all AGs like Heavy Rain become immensely popular than why would commercial company's spend money on more traditional games?

But don't you agree that the reality is that not all AGs like Heavy Rain will be immensely popular? Even if other developers jump on the bandwagon and try make their adventures more like that one, it doesn't mean those developers have the talents David Cage possesses, and it certainly doesn't mean those games will always be high quality, right? Besides, many adventure game developers don't have the backing of companies like Sony or Microsoft or EA to fund projects as ambitious as a game like Heavy Rain.

So you're saying I'm a loudmouth? Then you're right sir I am! Wich is probably the result of being a very quiet person in real life.

LOL! I don't know if you are, but from what I used to deal with five years ago in this forum and other adventure forums there were a small but very, very vocal group people who more or less complained vehemently. Yeah, they really did think that games like Gabriel Knight 3, Broken Sword 3, and Uru spelled the death of traditional 2D point-&-clickers. Well, have they?

I'd hate to be shared among those 2D traditionalists (for obvious reason) and I truly enjoy games like Dreamfall or Fahrenhiet/Indigo Prophecy. In fact I think they're fantastic and making them should be promoted but not at the cost of more traditional games. It's just like I'm starting to get worried about the increasing popularity of cassual games especially with AG franchises being converted into cassual format. Nevertheless I still like playing cassuals. Loving something but at the same time fearing it will go at the cost of something else you love is possible. But maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

IMO, honestly, if there's something many traditional adventure gamers should worry about it's the increasing popularity of casual games (i.e. Farmville) encroaching on the adventure game segment of the market and industry, NOT real time 3D. Your typical adventure game demands sitting down in front of your PC for a few hours at a time and investing all that time in story, character, and puzzle solving, right? But many casual games tend to not demand as much and can still deliver story, albeit a bite size smidgen of story, and allow the player to pick up and play at any time, anywhere (thanks to various distribution systems via cell phones and portable gaming devices).

I see, now I know what I have to give my baby brother for his second birthday. No seriously way to go!

I think my niece is that only one in our family that loves gross stuff like that. LOL!

One final question. I also asked someone else but maybe you can answer this too. Do you know of Uncharted is going to get a PC release somewhere in the near future? Because you keep mentioning that game along with Tomb Raider and I love those games. And even more importantly do you know if Heavy Rain is ever going to be released for PC?

Honestly, it may not happen. Sony has tight reins on the Uncharted series and I don't think they'd be interested in porting. If it had been Microsoft there may have been a better chance. Same with Heavy Rain. But we'll see. After all, Silent Hill 2 and 3 made it to PC, and they were released on the PS2.