[Lupin The Third]

Originally Posted by Phaid

De-railing this thread is not my intention, but I feel obliged to respond to certain accusations.

There's no need to speak in such an antagonizing tone. If you wish to spark a PC vs console debate however, be my guest.

Last time I checked, it's never been PC only, so I have no idea what you're getting at. The fact remains, an average consumer these days couldn't be less interested in the genre - that for the most part has nothing to do with the platform your typical adventure game gets released on.

You seem to miss the fact that I was responding to your assertion, and your implication that console gamers are idiots, with the comment you made about the game being on a console won't make console gamers want it.
Your comment was clearly ripe with vitriol for console gamers. Maybe you didn't mean it, but it was there...acting like you didn't make the implication is childish and silly. My point wasn't a "let's start a PC vs Console debate". It was clearly to illustrate that if you want to make unfounded implications about console gamers the exact same things can be done for the PC crowd.

Originally Posted by Phaid

Except pretty much everyone who owns a console already has a PC more than capable of running adventure games, yet vast majority of people choose to play Farmville, PoP Cap Games etc. as opposed to giving representatives of the aformentioned genre a chance. Why? "Not enough action, they're BORING." It is delusional to assume that a console release will change anyone's taste.

Never said that being on a console would. I merely point out that not every console gamer wants to play Madden or GTA, in spite of how you want to characterize the situation.

Originally Posted by Phaid

Again, the antagonizing tone and putting words into my mouth won't help you get your point across.

Not at all what I was doing....

Originally Posted by Phaid

Yet even the adventure games that eventually made it there despite those difficulties were hardly good sellers.

I don't think we're in disagreement on this....nothing I said indicated that AGs were huge sellers or that Grey Matter is going to sell millions. But my point does stand that the genre will appear on PC because of economics, especially given the small nature of most AG devs, and nostalgia/history. That they appear less frequently on consoles isn't necessarily because console gamers don't want them.

Originally Posted by Phaid

The number of explosions on screen per minute was too low. It's as simple as that.
Need I remind you that quite a lot of a.g. made it to the consoles, too? How successful were they? Not very, it seems since not a single console publisher funds new releases anymore.

I'm sorry but how many publishers funded console ags ten years ago? Virtually no one. Almost every AG for a console has been a port. There are a few exceptions (especially amongst Japanese developers in the PSX/Saturn era with their psuedo-adventure/fmv games) but mostly the games have originated on PC and then received console ports. It's ALWAYS been that way. Again you seem to lack any historical perspective for how things became as they are. Sure, it's all the console gamer's faults that a PC_centric genre has dwindled into obscurity....sure it is....

Originally Posted by Phaid

And how many copies did other adventure games sell? Like recently released Sherlock Holmes on xbox360?

Well SH has been out in the US for less than a week. My copy's still in transit from Amazon. So that's maybe not the best example (unless someone can provide European sales of the port). I don't really see what you're disagreeing with here. Sale data for the PC versions of AGs are virtually impossible to find (just ask Sughly) so I really can't say how the genre compares cross platform. Can you show me sales data for a recent AG that shows it selling 100,000 copies? If you can I'd be glad to see a comparison. All you have to do is check Monkey Island's leaderboards to see that well over 100,000 gamers bought it for XBLA. By contrast we've no idea how many sold for PC. I'd certainly wager that more copies of MI sold on pc (duh!), but there really isn't anything to compare. So attacking the console crowd for supporting AGs really is childish. IF MI sold 750,000 copies on PC and 50,000 copies on XBLA, maybe then you'd have an argument.

But my examples for consoles do show that there is a market in the console world for these games. Obviously not like that of Halo, but neither is there a market share in the PC world for AGs on the scale of WOW.

Originally Posted by Phaid

HR is not an adventure game. It's an interactive movie. Dragon's Lair with an enormous budget and monstrous marketing machine of Sony behind it. It caught the attention of the masses with its great graphics and cinematic "feel", in addition, it was hyped for years as "something revolutionary". There are no puzzles, it requires no thought, only button pressing skills.
It's not a surprise it sold decently, considering all the aspects mentioned above.

Well I haven't played it yet....though, on a side note, it always amuses me to have seen reviewers who lambasted Shenmue's amazing use of QTE, which entirely paved reinvigorated designers to use it in a cinematic manner, then praise Indigo and Heavy Rain's use of the same concepts.

Whether it's an AG or not will obviously be debated for years to come, but clearly many consider it close enough in spirit to consider it so. Either way this is a game built on many of the storytelling foundations of AG and was very successful. And successful with a console crowd at that. Which only proves my point that games like Heavy Rain and Alan Wake prove that there is a mature demographic of console gamers who are receptive of AGs and games that draw inspiration from them.

Originally Posted by Phaid

Gray Matter, on the other hand, will NOT sell nearly as good. It's an adventure game, and those products masses are NOT interested in. Let's see where your "adventure games-loving console audience which bought Heavy Rain" will be when the game ships.

Talk about attitude...and the anger beneath the surface finally bubbles forth for all to see. Your hostility toward consoles is immature and stupid. ANY sales of Grey Matter on the console will only add more revenues for the developer. But if you want to deny an AG developer revenue...well then...by all means....that'll certainly help the genre! No offense but Grey Matter won't sell as many copies on the PC as Heavy Rain did on PS3. And you're deluding yourself if you think your argument has any validity to it.

Originally Posted by Phaid

Freaked out? I haven't noticed.

Here's a few examples of people being upset and it took me all of 5 seconds to google them....
http://www.playfire.com/a/forum/mach...m/thread/73588
http://www.xblafans.com/tag/machinarium
http://topnews.us/content/216466-mic...rt-machinarium
http://kotaku.com/5514127/report-mac...-%5Bupdated%5D
http://xboxblips.dailyradar.com/stor...used-for-xbla/
http://play.tm/wire/3461217/microsof...ium-from-xbla/
http://www.destructoid.com/microsoft...a-170603.phtml

...maybe you should read a website other than just this one?

Originally Posted by Phaid

Nothing wrong with adventure gaming on the go.

Which only proves my points. Why are you even debating this issue?

Originally Posted by Phaid

They ship consoles with 57" HDTVs these days? PCs, including even the cheapest laptops have HDMI ports for a reason.

True....so then I can sit with a laptop on my lap while playing or come up with some keyboard/mouse apparatus that works on my lap....sure you can make PC gaming work on a TV in your living room. But personally I'd rather just have a console option.

Originally Posted by Phaid

Where you put your computer or whether you buy a desktop or a laptop is entirely up to you. You have only yourslef to blame if you threw your computer into the office.

This is just an idiotic response. It doesn't fit everyone's lifestyle to setup their PC next to their living room tv, or however else you'd have me play games. What works for you may not work for someone else.

Originally Posted by Phaid

You twisted my argument which had nothing to do with attacking anything or anyone and for some reason unnecessarily sparked an anti-PC tirade. Let us forget about this incident and get back on topic.

Not really, your implication is clear as day and your responses only emphasize your disdain for console gamers. While that's entirely your right to be a console bigot I have every right to illustrate how your attitude is silly and only detrimental to the AG genre. But I guess because I bought Sherlock Holmes for 360 instead of PC, because I'll have more enjoyment and access to playing it on a console, I guess that makes me a bad Adventuregamer....