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Old 05-03-2010, 10:35 PM   #59
Intrepid Homoludens
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by gray pierce View Post
I don't consider Tomb Raider an AG. Allthough the latest two releases (Legend and Underworld) have certainly come close I still think there's to much emphasis on skill rather than intelligence. And I think that's what it's all about. Not whether there are action sequences in a game or not but what their purpose is.
Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that certain game publishers, media, and even gamers themselves have already classified a title like Tomb Raider as an adventure game.

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For instance in Dreamfall all the action sequences are integral to the narrative. I hugely encourage this. I mean why would you waste an action sequence on a cutscene when you can implement it in the gameplay as well? For me AGs are like interactive movies and why would you waste the action elements of movies on cutscenes.
By that thought you could then easily classify Heavy Rain as an adventure game. Almost every action and decision you make in the game IS the narrative - integral, as you put it - emphatically so because it helps steer the story by degrees. Heavy Rain is arguably one long interactive cutscene.

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That seems hardly fair. However with Tomb Raider the emphasis of the sequences lies on pasing a challenge and not on helping the story further or even greater immersion. Therefor I do not think of them as AGs. Allthough I'd have to say I'm intrigued by the fact they got advertised as AGs.
Again, you're arbitrating a certain way - one way - of looking at what makes an adventure game. Someone else could argue that without passing a challenge (like swinging across a chasm using a vine) the story cannot progress. Conversely, many adventure games feature puzzles that, by way of logic, make absolutely no sense at all in terms of the story (a cave door with a puzzle slapped on it in Journey To The Center Of The Earth, for example, or finding the elements to make a cup of coffee for Victoria's boss in Still Life). Yet they're solidly classified, at least according to your details, as adventure games.

So the question I ask wouldn't be to you in this case; it would be asked of Eidos. Which could lead to a dialogue about the idea that there could be different kinds of games that fall under the umbrella of "adventure game" - games that feature no action but only puzzles, games that include some action with puzzles, and so forth.

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It must mean the genre's getting more and more popular. I mean why would you advertise a popular franchise like Tomb Raider as a long dead genre?
That's a question you should ask publishers and gaming magazines.

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LOL! BS3? I love that game. (as you are probably well aware of) Once more the emphasis on the sequences lies on the narrative. I mean name me one movie in the vein of Broken Sword that did not involve runnign from falling rocks and villains?
What disappointed me about BS3 was that it could've been done in 2D without altering any of the puzzles at all. Charles Cecil could at least be forgiven for trying to modernize the franchise but the effect, I think, was only superficial. I would've been impressed if he had designed puzzles that can only be experienced in three dimensions. Instead we get isometric views of annoying crate moving puzzles. Sheesh!

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Also since when does GK3 include action sequences? I think this term has been used way to much over the years.
I don't remember having to directly control Gabe and navigate him through the series of potentially deadly challenges leading to the climax. But some of those challenges were timed. Maybe your idea of 'action' is tied into direct control of the character?

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As for the graphic aspect I think every game should use graphics that suits them best. For instance I'm still rooting for Monkey Island to go back to 2D (keep dreaming) but I love Broken Sword in 3D (allthough I didn't like the graphics in BS4, way to stale)
I think every game should use graphics that the developer thinks suits them best.

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By the way: I think it's really funny that TLJ was seen as the hope of the genre back in the days as it's sequal was way more unconventional than GK3.
TLJ was hyped like nobody's business. I remember a crapload of threads about it in this forum, and in general gaming sites like Gamespot and Gamespy. In the end it did very nicely not because it was a good adventure game, but because it was a good game, period.

Remember, Dreamfall also got a lot of hype. It also got a lot of controversy, here in discussions and at other adventure game forums. Many outspoken adventure gamers hated it because they thought it signaled the death of 2D point-&-clickers. Well, was it the death of 2D?

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And I do know a lot of members here play other types of games as well. But the AG's only a very small section of all gamers. Even a small section of all adventure gamers.
Tons of gamers who appreciate adventure games don't sign up to this and other adventure gaming sites. They don't care to. But the very tiny number of us who do tend to be loudmouths. LOL!

No wonder David Cage and Ragnar Tornquist and even the Rand brothers stopped listening to this "small whiny group" while producing their new titles. In the end these creators chose to DUMP the traditional 2D point-&-click puzzle paradigm behind them, in spite of what the tiny number of 2D traditionalists demanded of them (I remember an interview where Tornquist complained in passing about this vociferous group). That in part finally allowed them the freedom to create such games that offered new experiences to us - Uru, Myst V, In Memoriam, Dreamfall, Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain, etc.

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PS: Just a small question I came up with last night. Is your niece's ambition of becoming a forensic scientist the result of playing, and no doubt watching, CSI as a kid?
No. She was already fascinated by pathology and such before I introduced her to crime adventure games. I augmented it by giving her books like Death's Acre: Inside the Legendary Forensic Lab the Body Farm Where the Dead Do Tell Tales by William Bass and Jon Jefferson.
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Last edited by Intrepid Homoludens; 05-03-2010 at 10:46 PM.
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