[imisssunwell]

TLDR: Tbh at this point I find this discussion rather pointless and I don't think I have much to add. We will just go on saying if Goos publisher figures are accurate and discuss if it is harder to pirate consoles, in the mean time PC gamers will have to stick with their console ports, as the developers have chosen their target platform because for them it is clear that "money talks, horse... walks".

more extensively:
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Originally Posted by stepurhan

The slashdot link only reference for the story is the netlaunch one you originally posted. Hardly supporting evidence.

Well you wanted to see where this link came up from, it came up from slashdot.

The second link references Gearfuse. Now Gearfuse actually does allege to have two sources for this story. Unfortunately neither are in English so i can't tell if they are reliable references or not.

Well, it is hardly surprising though that chief distributor in Beijing made this announcement in Chinese, which was then transfered to western sites later.

I'm not looking for precision as such. The point I'm making is the figure of 90% is being bandied around but there doesn't seem to be anything concrete to hang it on. In fact, Lucien's links appear to be presenting a much lower figure.

As I said,

90% is the number for world of goo afaik but it's not reduced too much for other games

, (hint: read "for world of goo")

By "anecdotal" what I mean is unsubstantiated by data. The closest we've got is the World of Goo story. However, he's not supplying detailed figures and I've already pointed out ways in which the number can vary. Even if that figure is accurate you can't extrapolate it to the games market as a whole. You'd need to ask questions like "Is World of Goo particularly easy to pirate?" for example. If it is, then figures are likely to be higher because less technical skill is required. (If anyone can simply copy it on to a CD for a mate then you're going to get more piracy)

Also I don't think it's only a matter of Goos non existent DRM, SPORE had pretty draconian DRM and it is downloaded more than any other full sized game.

So why the hate for PCs?(which is what started this) There is already evidence that console piracy is possible so saying all games should be switched to consoles because of piracy is a non-starter.

I hate PCs? lol! please no psychoanalysis over the web, you'll have to come up with something better. I couldn't care less where games are developed, I'll just use the platform developers support most and have the better gaming experience.

You said it was -10% (minus 10%). That's not 10 times less. Have I misunderstood you there.

No no no no, read again... I said it is AT 10% of PC piracy (not 10% less). Simple math tutorial:

A is 10% of B => A = 0.1*B or equivalently B= 10*A or
equivalevtly A = 100%B - 90%B. At 10%, or 90% less or B is 10xA. Also in math "~" is used in the context A `approximately at' 10%B => A is close to 10% of B.
I even quoted it in words "Fallout 3 has almost ten times as many PC downloads as it does console downloads"... so again where did you come up with that " (-10%) minus 10%" from? not from my posts...

What causes that to happen. I mean in the context of why are you certain this cannot be circumvented?

Because you have to use a modchip it's harder, also you lose all your online services if you use modchips, I didn't say it can't be circumvented, please don't misquote me at your convenience, I said it quite clearly it becomes harder in consoles, not impossible "they can react 90% worse". Technically speaking, they can make it impossible in consoles by embeding the firmware chip within the processor chip and make firmware not upgradable, similarly to the most hardcore paladium proposals, while this would never be feasible for computers which have many uses and I can't see them running only signed code in the near future, it could be done for consoles if they chose to but atm the piracy there is small and they have no reason to resort to such extreme solutions. Again, for the PC they could try putting content online so that the offline client has content missing or maybe the microtransactions idea could work well but at the present moment, fact is PC has 10x console piracy.

Not quoting figures so still not justifying 90% (which was your original claim) I'm not denying piracy happens.
How much is to piracy? How much is to steep system requirements? If there's more than one variable you can't ascribe a percentage to one of them without more data.

again, 90% was for world of goo, and said the number is still very high for rest games, re-quoting myself again for clarity "90% is the number for world of goo afaik but it's not reduced too much for other games". You don't want to believe the publisher numbers, that's fine by me.

so the 90% in WoG that publisher claims is not a good figure because of dynamic IPs.....

Well all you are saying is that you don't believe the publishers figure is accurate because you believe dynamic IPs may play that significant a role, I'll have to be honest and say I find this dynamic IP argument pulled out of the thin air but again, since there is no big brother registering all traffic & sending that to copyright holders I doubt you will ever see the precision you ask for.

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If their figure is reliable (the BSA survey backing it up has a professional look but I haven't thoroughly reviewed it. It's also the place Lucien linked to above) then it's a final blow to your 90% claim. They are citing 41%

Lucien's link is for PC piracy as a whole (not targeted to games) . Personally I have no doubt that these figures are accurate (and I don't see how they contradict 90% with Goo and very high rates with rest of games) but I am surprised that you just accept figures for general software piracy but for games piracy figures you find most numbers anecdotal.

There is also evidence that consoles suffer piracy as well.

90% less is hardly suffer

It is at best naive to suggest that moving all games from PC will eradicate piracy.

Well that is actually what developers are doing, it used to be that the console version was a cheapo pc port, now it is the other way around.

If that's where the money is, that's where the pirates will go. They've cracked all the PC systems over the years. What makes you think they won't crack all the console ones as well?

again, it is not technically impossible but it is significantly harder and users that mod their consolers lose online services + custom firmware is not always compatible with all good games. 90% LESS speaks for itself, it is not that consoles cannot be technically cracked, it is just less attractive to do so.

Tbh at this point I find this discussion rather pointless and while it is amusing to read my phychoanalysis over the web, I don't think I have much to add. We will just go on saying if Goos publisher figures are accurate and discuss if it is harder to pirate consoles, in the mean time PC gamers will have to stick with their console ports, as the developers have chosen their target platform because for them it is clear that "money talks, horse... walks".


@nomad: "in NA and Euro if you connect to Live with modded console, you get banned, millions were banned." indeed.

"As far as 360 goes, they are doing it on purpose to sell more consoles in ASIA" haha, very microsoft! reminds me of B. Gates ""Although about 3 million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though," ... "And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade."