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Old 10-28-2005, 07:46 AM   #50
Jackal
Hopeful skeptic
 
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky
I just don't see why having things out in the open is so bad that people are criticized when they raise their concerns in public instead of in a PM.
I'm really not convinced people are criticized for "raising concerns" publicly. This was the very point I was trying to make. Nor are they criticized for making suggestions. We want to encourage that, even. But as I said, there is a line where "enough" becomes "too much", or it's approached in such a way that whatever good intentions are behind it are completely wasted. Say what you will about US not taking things personally, but threads that start "You suck! You should do things differently!" is not a reasonable way to open dialogue. Nor is starting one saying, "I insist you explain yourselves, heathens; else I spit at your feet! Ptooie!!" Um... yeah.

(Note to those feeling oversensitive: these are hypothetical examples.)

Quote:
If Fum hadn't made his post public, I wouldn't have posted a reply, and you wouldn't have to spend time responding to me.
And this after having gone through almost this exact discussion a couple weeks ago. As you're saying, Snarky, this is no one's fault. Just a matter of perspective. Those that don't know about other threads and discussions think their's is the only one, and those that had to field those others feel dragged back into the muck.

Quote:
However, the most convenient thing is not always the best thing. There's certainly information that shouldn't be made public. Say, the identity of undercover intelligence agents. However, I think most people would agree that the government over-classifies many documents, simply because it's the easiest thing to do.
I really don't think we deliberately conceal information that often, unless a matter is truly private. What's been asked of us that we haven't disclosed? (That's not a rhetorical question, by the way.) I think what we're discussing here is not justifying ourselves before a court of public opinion, where such discussions some times (ahem) get dragged out, debated and argued indefinitely - not because the ongoing argument is useful, but simply because people CAN. It's an unfortunate reality, but it's the real reality. Believe me, we'd love the idealistic "open dialogue" thing as much as you, but the idealistic contributions have to run both ways to work. Could we explain ourselves better sometimes? Very likely. Should we be required to have every decision dissected and challenged? No, but that's what tends to happen.

Quote:
Hey! If you're implying that I don't sincerely have the best interests of this community at heart, I take offense at that!

Just kidding!
Well, except it did read like that when I first saw it.
I know you're kidding, but I still want to clarify. I certainly wasn't holding anybody's hand, no, but I deliberately didn't cite any specifics or reference any names because I wasn't pronouncing judgement on anyone. (If anyone was likely to take it personally, I assumed it would be Fum, since it came on his thread.) What I was trying to do was to get people to look at their own contributions when these matters arise and ask themselves if they're helping or making things worse. If someone's entirely comfortable with what they're saying, great. If not, there's the challenge to be part of the solution. If I'm really pointing a finger at someone in particular, I don't generally leave much doubt about it.

Quote:
Yeah, it's very easy for these things to turn confrontational and escalate.
And this is why I did the above. If anyone is being openly confrontational with staff, they can be sure it'll escalate. That's not helping. Not because we're a bunch of pansies that cry over hurt feelings, but because authority still needs to be respected, and any authority worth a damn will rightly assert itself. Once again, I'm not saying that means people shouldn't say anything (they should!), or that any hostility is solely a poster's fault. But the responsibility for making things work runs both ways.
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